Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 12, 2017, 08:41:09 AM
QB: I would prefer us not to draft anyone and go with a veteran and the two young ones we have. Would Tyrod Taylor be a decent possibility? I would prefer him to Cutler or Romo as he would come cheaper. I'm not sold on any of the second tier ones though.
RB: I think we can survive with the two we have, although someone in the latter rounds of the draft could come in handy.
OL: The biggest priority. Carpenter and Shell will stay. I'd like Mangold to stay provided he takes a pay cut and move Johnson to guard. Let's see what happens with Winters. We would obviously need a LT after that and none seems to be good enough to reach for at 6. Any idea of latter rounds or veterans?
WR: I know I'm well in the minority here but I'd like both Marshall and Decker to stay, provided Marshall takes a pay cut. If not, good riddance. All the others should stay too.
TE: I'd like to keep Seferian-Jenkins and Tomlinson and add a good one on the draft.
DL: There's a problem with trading Sheldon and it's that he would probably give us less in return than what we'd get for him if we let him walk next year. Let's see how that situation pans out. Williams and Mo will obviously stay and I liked what I saw of Simon and McLendon (before his injury). Lawrence Thomas was interesting as well before getting hurt.
OLB: We're in deep excrement there. It seems Mauldin and Jenkins could be decent but not much more than that. The rest are garbage. I'd like us to address that position at 6 once and for all although last time we drafted one so high it was the worst bust in franchise history (Gholston).
ILB: I'd like to resign Harris at the right price. He's declining a bit but still busting his derriere on every snap, let's hope Lee polishes his flaws.
S: I don't know what to think of Pryor, I expected this to be his year but he was a mess, although the putrid state of our CBs didn't help. We need to get another one on FA as neither Miles nor Middleton are starting caliber.
CB: Goodbye Revis. Burn the unit to the ground and start anew. Trading down a bit to get Humphrey sounds like a good plan. Maybe keep Burris and Williams. In an ideal world, Skrine would stay to play exclusively in the slot.
Special teams: I'd like Folk to stay provided he agrees to a paycut. Bring some competition at P. Getting some decent depth players would be nice too to prevent the usual shitstorm.
So, to summarize.
I'd like to address the following positions at the draft: OLB, CB (x2), LT, TE, RB (late), S (late).
Free agency: QB, CB, S, OLB.
What do you guys think?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2017, 08:48:38 AM
Get what you can for him and move on. We have three starting 3-4 DEs and only room for 2 to play. The Jets sealed Sheldon's fate when they resigned Mo.
Post by: Tommy on January 12, 2017, 09:31:08 AM
Sheldon needs to go. You might only get a 3rd (comp pick) if you let him walk next year, and that would be a 2019 3rd. That's assuming his comp. value isn't cancelled out by signing another player that offsets him (like Ivory this year).
Get what you can for him and move on. We have three starting 3-4 DEs and only room for 2 to play. The Jets sealed Sheldon's fate when they resigned Mo.
The thing is that other teams know that we don't really need him and probably want to unload him. Doesn't really help in our negotiations.
Post by: Pope on January 12, 2017, 10:02:47 AM
The thing is that other teams know that we don't really need him and probably want to unload him. Doesn't really help in our negotiations.Teams will be betting against each other though
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2017, 10:22:18 AM
The thing is that other teams know that we don't really need him and probably want to unload him. Doesn't really help in our negotiations.
Teams will be betting against each other though
What Pope said.
Tommy is right if we are negotiating with only one team. If a few teams get interested, things could get good for the Jets.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2017, 10:53:56 AM
QB: I would prefer us not to draft anyone and go with a veteran and the two young ones we have. Would Tyrod Taylor be a decent possibility? I would prefer him to Cutler or Romo as he would come cheaper. I'm not sold on any of the second tier ones though.
Rather keep Fitz than any of those options, just not as starter. Really don't want Taylor.
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RB: I think we can survive with the two we have, although someone in the latter rounds of the draft could come in handy.
Big need for us. Powell and Forte are both good but too similar, we really need a downhill runner to do a lot of the dirty work. I'd let Forte go if we got a reasonable trade offer.
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OL: The biggest priority. Carpenter and Shell will stay. I'd like Mangold to stay provided he takes a pay cut and move Johnson to guard. Let's see what happens with Winters. We would obviously need a LT after that and none seems to be good enough to reach for at 6. Any idea of latter rounds or veterans?
Winters is the priority. Keeping Clady on a reduced deal might be our best LT option. I'm happy with drafting more if there's value in mid/late rounds.
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WR: I know I'm well in the minority here but I'd like both Marshall and Decker to stay, provided Marshall takes a pay cut. If not, good riddance. All the others should stay too.
The unit about which I have most optimism. I'm not in a hurry to get rid of anyone, and I wouldn't sign any more unless an unmissable steal becomes available in the draft.
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TE: I'd like to keep Seferian-Jenkins and Tomlinson and add a good one on the draft.
No feelings about Tomlinson but ASJ definitely showed me enough that I want to see what he can do with a full pre-season. Reasonably high draft priority.
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DL: There's a problem with trading Sheldon and it's that he would probably give us less in return than what we'd get for him if we let him walk next year. Let's see how that situation pans out. Williams and Mo will obviously stay and I liked what I saw of Simon and McLendon (before his injury). Lawrence Thomas was interesting as well before getting hurt.
You can't turn down a trade offer because you think you'll get a better comp pick in two years' time. I wouldn't be hugely shocked if it ends up being Wilk we trade though.
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OLB: We're in deep excrement there. It seems Mauldin and Jenkins could be decent but not much more than that. The rest are garbage. I'd like us to address that position at 6 once and for all although last time we drafted one so high it was the worst bust in franchise history (Gholston).
ILB: I'd like to resign Harris at the right price. He's declining a bit but still busting his derriere on every snap, let's hope Lee polishes his flaws.
Agreed on both. Pass rush continues to be an issue and is a major draft priority.
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S: I don't know what to think of Pryor, I expected this to be his year but he was a mess, although the putrid state of our CBs didn't help. We need to get another one on FA as neither Miles nor Middleton are starting caliber.
Miles is not a terrible player, Revis is the wildcard here. Until we know what we're doing with him it's hard to make a call. I was deeply unimpressed with Gilchrist this year, but the whole secondary seemed to suffer the same malaise. New DB coach might make a difference.
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CB: Goodbye Revis. Burn the unit to the ground and start anew. Trading down a bit to get Humphrey sounds like a good plan. Maybe keep Burris and Williams. In an ideal world, Skrine would stay to play exclusively in the slot.
Burris looks promising and I thought that Roberts showed signs of being able to play. I have never been convinced by Marcus Williams but again, it's almost impossible to judge anyone on this year's showing.
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Special teams: I'd like Folk to stay provided he agrees to a paycut. Bring some competition at P. Getting some decent depth players would be nice too to prevent the usual shitstorm.
Aussie P had some horrible kicks but he wasn't terrible. ST was pretty solid overall, I think. Need to figure out our PR/KR situation though as it was a revolving door this year.
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So, to summarize.
I'd like to address the following positions at the draft: OLB, CB (x2), LT, TE, RB (late), S (late).
Free agency: QB, CB, S, OLB.
What do you guys think?
I think that I trust Mac to figure it out.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2017, 11:35:36 AM
Edit: I'm probably wrong about bonus money, but I found this from Dick Cimini...
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@RichCimini: There is virtually no chance of trading Muhammad Wilkerson. His contract makes it prohibitive and his play this season won't attract many suitors. As Sheldon Richardson noted the other day, he probably will be the "odd-man out," not Wilkerson or Leonard Williams.
From a salary-cap standpoint, the Jets would get hit with a $12 million dead charge in 2017 by trading Wilkerson, meaning they'd save $6 million because his cap charge is $18 million. But that's not even the biggest issue. They'd have to find a team willing to pick up the remaining four years of his contract -- a total of $64 million, including a fully guaranteed $14.75 million in 2017.
That's not happening.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 12, 2017, 11:45:42 AM
2-Draft bums
3-Be terrible again
4-Fire everyone
5-Repeat
Post by: ScotlandJet on January 12, 2017, 11:54:23 AM
1-Trade our good players for draft picks
2-Draft bums
3-Be terrible again
4-Fire everyone
5-Repeat
This is not funny, I've seen this movie too many times already
Post by: Miamipuck on January 12, 2017, 12:25:58 PM
1-Trade our good players for draft picks
2-Draft bums
3-Be terrible again
4-Fire everyone
5-Repeat
1. Richardson is a bum
2. Duffs record says otherwise
3. The Jets aren't good anyway.
4. Whiner
5. SOJF
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2017, 12:39:34 PM
QB: I would prefer us not to draft anyone and go with a veteran and the two young ones we have. Would Tyrod Taylor be a decent possibility? I would prefer him to Cutler or Romo as he would come cheaper. I'm not sold on any of the second tier ones though.
Are we sure Tyrod will cost less than Cutler? Cutler's market might not be what we think it's going to be. Tyrod would be our best QB in a decade, so I would love to get someone like him. I don't get why half the board hates him.
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RB: I think we can survive with the two we have, although someone in the latter rounds of the draft could come in handy.Yep. We have 2 RBs we can live with that are under contract. It's a great RB draft, so I wouldn't mind getting someone to be the guy next year (and probably late this year), but I don't want to do that in round 1.
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OL: The biggest priority. Carpenter and Shell will stay. I'd like Mangold to stay provided he takes a pay cut and move Johnson to guard. Let's see what happens with Winters. We would obviously need a LT after that and none seems to be good enough to reach for at 6. Any idea of latter rounds or veterans?I'd like to bring back Johnson in the interior. I'm okay if we go into next year with Shell and a veteran backup at RT. We definitely need to find an LT from somewhere - not entirely sure where.
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WR: I know I'm well in the minority here but I'd like both Marshall and Decker to stay, provided Marshall takes a pay cut. If not, good riddance. All the others should stay too.
I thought Decker was a goner when he got hurt. But with all the locker room fighting with Marshall and others, I think Marshall has to go. Not to mention, his production on the field was terrible this year. He's going to be 33 next year. I'd rather play Enunwa and Anderson and the other kids. With so many needs on this team, WR is a clear spot where we can save money to look elsewhere.
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TE: I'd like to keep Seferian-Jenkins and Tomlinson and add a good one on the draft.I think I might prefer a veteran TE. I haven't looked at the options, but we need a starting TE. I don't know if either of these guys are starters short-term or long-term.
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DL: There's a problem with trading Sheldon and it's that he would probably give us less in return than what we'd get for him if we let him walk next year. Let's see how that situation pans out. Williams and Mo will obviously stay and I liked what I saw of Simon and McLendon (before his injury). Lawrence Thomas was interesting as well before getting hurt.
Either Marshall or Richardson has to go. I don't know how you could have followed this team this year and advocate for both to come back. I like Sheldon a lot as a player, but I think we need to sell low on him. As long as we get at least a 4th-round pick, I would move on from him and reallocate resources elsewhere.
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OLB: We're in deep excrement there. It seems Mauldin and Jenkins could be decent but not much more than that. The rest are garbage. I'd like us to address that position at 6 once and for all although last time we drafted one so high it was the worst bust in franchise history (Gholston).
I'd be fine with an edge rusher at 6. Between Jenkins and Mauldin, we have to hope that one of them can be a starting OLB next year. Have the other compete with a veteran or a draft pick.
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ILB: I'd like to resign Harris at the right price. He's declining a bit but still busting his derriere on every snap, let's hope Lee polishes his flaws.
Key word is the "right price." But I do think we could use some veteran leadership on defense since we don't have much. Lee obviously has the other spot.
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S: I don't know what to think of Pryor, I expected this to be his year but he was a mess, although the putrid state of our CBs didn't help. We need to get another one on FA as neither Miles nor Middleton are starting caliber.
Pryor was a mess this year. I'd be okay taking a safety at 6 if the right one is there. Revis is an option if he takes a significant pay cut, but the Jets need to make a hard decision on whether or not
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CB: Goodbye Revis. Burn the unit to the ground and start anew. Trading down a bit to get Humphrey sounds like a good plan. Maybe keep Burris and Williams. In an ideal world, Skrine would stay to play exclusively in the slot.CB is absolutely a potential spot for us at 6 or in the 1st round. I wouldn't mind drafting more than one CB in this draft. It's a good class.
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Special teams: I'd like Folk to stay provided he agrees to a paycut. Bring some competition at P. Getting some decent depth players would be nice too to prevent the usual shitstorm.If I'm Nick Folk, I'm not agreeing to a pay cut. He's played well here, and someone might pay him good kicker money. I would probably cut him and go cheaper. Edwards should have competition in camp, though cheap, young competition.
My bottom line strategy...
1. Target an edge rusher or a defensive back at 6 (unless there is an OT or QB worth the pick).
2. Let go of either Marshall or Decker. Put that money to use elsewhere, and let the young kids play a bigger role.
3. Sell low on Richardson, unless the offers are just so bad that it's not worth it. And even then, the Jets may decide the locker room is better without him. I don't think Richardson and Wilkerson are good influences on each other.
4. Address QB somehow. I think Tyrod is the best option out there, but if all the big name QBs want big money, taking a flyer on a bargain bin veteran, or drafting someone is the right answer.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2017, 12:47:01 PM
Are we sure Tyrod will cost less than Cutler? Cutler's market might not be what we think it's going to be. Tyrod would be our best QB in a decade, so I would love to get someone like him. I don't get why half the board hates him.
I don't hate him, I just think we've seen his ceiling and it isn't very high. I agree that he'll command a reasonable amount of money this offseason, and I don't think he'll be worth it. He is what we've seen he is, a good runner with a decent arm but he doesn't read defenses well and he doesn't make good decisions. I will be interested to see how he does when he doesn't have a Shady McCoy as his main distraction.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2017, 12:48:44 PM
We need to give Christian Hackenberg a chance in 2016. If things don't go well, we'll have a shot at Sam Darnold, Lamar Jackson, or Josh Allen.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 12, 2017, 01:11:23 PM
Can't emphasis enough at how much more of an attractive job this becomes next offseason when they have millions in cap room and possibly a top 5 pick in a good QB class, though I'm not very high on Jackson. Imagine if we also had a 6th overall pick from this year that showed ability in the cupboard as well.
Post by: Johnny English on January 12, 2017, 01:22:06 PM
If we're dipping into the free agent stock and his price isn't out of control (which I don't expect it to be, but you never know) I wouldn't mind taking a look at Glennon. Otherwise like Heis said, give Hack the long look.
Can't emphasis enough at how much more of an attractive job this becomes next offseason when they have millions in cap room and possibly a top 5 pick in a good QB class, though I'm not very high on Jackson. Imagine if we also had a 6th overall pick from this year that showed ability in the cupboard as well.
Of the available options I agree that Glennon is probably the most interesting, but he's not going to set my heart racing. I wouldn't be too upset though.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 12, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
1. Richardson is a bum
2. Duffs record says otherwise
3. The Jets aren't good anyway.
4. Whiner
5. SOJF
1. We traded a Hall of Famer for the Richardson pick
2. Everyone got fired
3. We still suck
4. Mario Bros Mustache
5. Florida Fagg*t
Post by: Miamipuck on January 12, 2017, 02:13:26 PM
1. We traded a Hall of Famer for the Richardson pick
2. Everyone got fired
3. We still suck
4. Mario Bros Mustache
5. Florida Fagg*t
1. They're both bums.
2. Duff is still here.
3. Duh.
4. Gay earrings.
5. Pot meet kettle, one New Jersey bundle of sticks to the Florida bundle of sticks.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 12, 2017, 02:20:46 PM
Tyrod Taylor would struggle to do half of what Ryan Fitzpatrick did for this team as a stopgap in 2015. This team needs to find a longterm starter at the position. Taylor is a limited passer and you can't consistently win in this league with him.I think Tyrod has a chance to be a good game manager at QB. He's barely turned the ball over in 2 years, and the few times he had healthy wide receivers, he put up pretty big passing numbers. I don't view him as the Jets' starter for the next 6 years, but I think he would buy us 2-3 years to develop someone.
We need to give Christian Hackenberg a chance in 2016. If things don't go well, we'll have a shot at Sam Darnold, Lamar Jackson, or Josh Allen.
If Hackenberg is good enough to start next year, that would clearly be the best option. I have no idea if he is good enough to start next year. My guess based on how this past season played out, along with his college tape, is no.
I think the most likely option is that we have Hack, Petty and a veteran QB compete for the job. The quality of the QB (and the money that they pay that QB) will tell us what they think of Hackenberg in the short term.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 12, 2017, 02:41:34 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 12, 2017, 02:46:33 PM
I wonder if Eric Studesville has any interest in Jay Cutler...
At running back?
Maybe.
Post by: Badger on January 13, 2017, 12:26:08 AM
1. We traded a Hall of Famer for the Richardson pick
2. Everyone got fired
3. We still suck
4. Mario Bros Mustache
5. Florida Fagg*t
At least you're finally admitting we didn't trade Revis for Milliner. Progress.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 13, 2017, 09:20:26 AM
RB: Draft one. I like Powell a lot and have for a long time. I care little about Forte given he was completely misused. Who knows with a new OC?
OL: The most important position to fill on this team apart from QB. I'd like to bring Clady back on an incentive-based deal. I'd like to bring Winters back as well. If not, and Mangold comes back at a reasonable price, move Johnson to guard. Shell's next year's starting RT at this point. Carpenter obviously stays. Later Breno.
WR: If one falls in their lap in the draft, go ahead. I'm not convinced Smith will ever be healthy, and I've already said I don't believe any of the other young guys are #1 talents. I'd still bring back Marshall and Decker if they take paycuts.
TE: I felt like ASJ did nothing to impress but he should come back and let's see what we have. I wouldn't be opposed to drafting one.
DL: Good-bye Sheldon. He's got to go. If for nothing else, he's a locker room cancer. Take whatever you can get for him. Wilkerson, Williams, and McClendon are next year's starters, and Simon looks like real depth.
OLB: Get a damn pass rusher. Do it early in the draft or sign one through free agency. This is the team's next biggest need after OL and QB. We have depth players at the position. Get a damn starter.
ILB: Harris can come back at a lower salary or not. I don't care either way. I want to see Lee mature into Harris' spot for good though.
CB: Just behind OLB on my list. I can't stand the idea of drafting yet another first round corner, but I'd be okay with it this year. Williams can GTFO. I would be okay with Skrine staying exclusively as a slot corner, but I'd probably cut him if I were GM. He looks lost. Burris is the only "starter" I feel we have right now and he's a #2.
S: Revis should only be in green and white next year if he comes back for $8M or less and moves to safety. I think he'd be fine at FS and if they can improve the play at corner, I think Pryor is fine as a box safety. I don't mind addressing this position in free agency or the draft though.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 13, 2017, 09:24:12 AM
Post by: Miamipuck on January 13, 2017, 09:30:21 AM
QB: I'm with Heismanberg: it's time for Hackenberg to sink or swim. You get one (none) redshirt year in the NFL.
(http://www.newsbusters.org/s3/files/styles/blog_body-50/s3/images/aaron%20rodgers.jpg?itok=JkzD9Ev4)
Post by: Miamipuck on January 13, 2017, 09:33:58 AM
I'd be interested in keeping Clady on a cheap deal. We could do worse. If he's healthy, I think he's average. I worry more abut his health than any deterioration of play. At this point, I'd be happy with an average LT.
You would have a better chance to be Denzel Washington's stunt double than Clady being healthy.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 13, 2017, 09:34:19 AM
(http://www.newsbusters.org/s3/files/styles/blog_body-50/s3/images/aaron%20rodgers.jpg?itok=JkzD9Ev4)
Fair point, but Hackenberg doesn't have a Hall of Famer in front of him. Same reason you can sit on Garapolololpolo for 3 years.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 13, 2017, 10:08:48 AM
I'd be interested in keeping Clady on a cheap deal. We could do worse. If he's healthy, I think he's average. I worry more abut his health than any deterioration of play. At this point, I'd be happy with an average LT.
That's why I'm in favor of an incentive based deal. He plays the reps, he gets paid. He likely won't make a lot, but at least if we draft someone they don't have to start day 1.
Fair point, but Hackenberg doesn't have a Hall of Famer in front of him. Same reason you can sit on Garapolololpolo for 3 years.
This would've been my response too. Hackenberg had Ryan Fitzpatrick and Bryce Petty ahead of him, not Brett Favre.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 13, 2017, 10:30:02 AM
At least you're finally admitting we didn't trade Revis for Milliner. Progress.
We still could have drafted Richardson without trading Revis, which was my point all along...because it's true.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 13, 2017, 10:30:42 AM
Heismanberg.....Hackenberg
I'm already confused. Cut him.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 13, 2017, 10:38:43 AM
I'm already confused. Cut him.
Huh, I never thought about that before.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 16, 2017, 10:22:38 AM
Post by: Tommy on January 16, 2017, 10:37:27 AM
Who would you guys keep if it comes to that, Sheldon or Marshall?
Definitely keep Marshall. Not like we're deep on WR.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2017, 10:49:38 AM
Who would you guys keep if it comes to that, Sheldon or Marshall?Sheldon doesn't fit here anymore on many levels.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 16, 2017, 12:35:09 PM
Post by: Pope on January 16, 2017, 01:28:09 PM
Not that what he says is wrong or stupid but more-so the tone and inflections in his voice
Post by: Tommy on January 16, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
Eh, probably neither. On a semi unrelated note, I hate the way Brando Marshall speaks. People always commend him as an on-air personality but to me he comes off as a dumbass trying to sound smart.
Not that what he says is wrong or stupid but more-so the tone and inflections in his voice
Part of me just think we can somehow recreate the magic of 2016, but considering Marshall's age, and that we're going nowhere next season, might be a good idea to get rid of him and use that cap space elsewhere.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2017, 02:14:59 PM
A veteran QB does nothing but let us tread water next year. I want no part of Cutler or Romo. Glendon is the only option that would interest me but he should get a Brock Osweiler type contract. Time to let Hackenberg and Petty play and start thinking about plan B if they don't look like they are developing.
Build the Oline.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2017, 02:56:56 PM
Post by: Pope on January 16, 2017, 03:43:42 PM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 16, 2017, 03:49:27 PM
It's one of the reasons I'm still highest on Kaepernick, he isn't entirely dependent upon a reliable pocket and makes defenses have to worry about him making plays on the run. Pair him with a drafted RB and Powell/Forte, and together with our young and improving WR corps I think we could have an offense that might not be winning Super Bowls, but will at least be capable of keeping opposing defenses on their toes despite a questionable OL.
But the same can be said about Tyrod Taylor and yet you don't like him at all...
Post by: Jumbo on January 16, 2017, 03:50:34 PM
But the same can be said about Tyrod Taylor and yet you don't like him at all...
It's because JE is unamerican
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2017, 03:52:06 PM
But the same can be said about Tyrod Taylor and yet you don't like him at all...
He's wildly inaccurate, makes bad decisions and hasn't been to a Super Bowl. I don't know if Kaepernick will ever be that good again, but he has at least shown in the past that he has the capability to be. I believe we've seen both players' ceilings and Kaep's is massively higher.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 16, 2017, 04:09:58 PM
He's wildly inaccurate, makes bad decisions and hasn't been to a Super Bowl. I don't know if Kaepernick will ever be that good again, but he has at least shown in the past that he has the capability to be. I believe we've seen both players' ceilings and Kaep's is massively higher.
Uff, I don't know man. Look at their stats in the last two years.
Kaep 19 games, 19 TD 8 INT 57% completion
Tyrod 29 games, 37 TD 12 INT 62.7% completion
Even in rushing yards Tyrod leads Kaep 1148-724
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 16, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2017, 04:31:29 PM
Uff, I don't know man. Look at their stats in the last two years.
Kaep 19 games, 19 TD 8 INT 57% completion
Tyrod 29 games, 37 TD 12 INT 62.7% completion
Even in rushing yards Tyrod leads Kaep 1148-724
Yes, I fully accept that Kaep hasn't been very good in the last couple of years. I'm basing my view on the fact that he's not exactly been put in a great position to succeed, and hoping that a change of scenery will help him rediscover the form he showed prior to that. I absolutely would not argue that it's a punt, but I think someone's going to overpay Taylor and I don't think he's ever going to be very good. Kaep might not be either, but he's likely cheaper and his ceiling is higher.
Post by: Laxin on January 16, 2017, 04:49:06 PM
Post by: Pope on January 16, 2017, 04:59:40 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on January 16, 2017, 05:07:53 PM
I wouldn't care if Kaep was a probowler last season. I don't want that shitstained agenda of his anywhere near this team
x2
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2017, 05:17:06 PM
Post by: Tommy on January 16, 2017, 05:25:25 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2017, 08:00:09 PM
I wouldn't care if Kaep was a probowler last season. I don't want that shitstained agenda of his anywhere near this team
Couldn't give a freak about a player's political views. Most professional sportsmen are millionaires, I'm in little doubt where their political allegiances lie and they don't tally with mine. If you don't like him as a player then fine, but not wanting someone who could help your team because you don't like his political views is weird.
I doubt that hotbed of limpwristed liberals in Boston were howling about Tim Thomas playing for the Bruins when he won the Stanley Cup for them and then refused to go to the White House because he doesn't like having a black president.
Post by: Pope on January 16, 2017, 08:11:22 PM
Couldn't give a freak about a player's political views. Most professional sportsmen are millionaires, I'm in little doubt where their political allegiances lie and they don't tally with mine. If you don't like him as a player then fine, but not wanting someone who could help your team because you don't like his political views is weird.Bullshit you love Kaepernick
I doubt that hotbed of limpwristed liberals in Boston were howling about Tim Thomas playing for the Bruins when he won the Stanley Cup for them and then refused to go to the White House because he doesn't like having a black president.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2017, 08:13:21 PM
Couldn't give a freak about a player's political views. Most professional sportsmen are millionaires, I'm in little doubt where their political allegiances lie and they don't tally with mine. If you don't like him as a player then fine, but not wanting someone who could help your team because you don't like his political views is weird.
I doubt that hotbed of limpwristed liberals in Boston were howling about Tim Thomas playing for the Bruins when he won the Stanley Cup for them and then refused to go to the White House because he doesn't like having a black president.
This post is way off.
1) having a political opinion is fine. I'm sure a lot of NFL players have political opinions. There's a difference between having an opinion and expressing it the way he chose to. Plenty of front office people, fans, and players agree.
2) where did Tim Thomas say he wasnt visiting the White House because Obama is black? Maybe I missed that one, but it seems like a pretty big assumption on your part.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2017, 08:14:34 PM
Bullshit you love KaepernickThis.
"Tyrod sucks. Kaep is clearly the best option out there"
Edit: this was covered on thread page 2
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2017, 08:17:25 PM
This post is way off.
1) having a political opinion is fine. I'm sure a lot of NFL players have political opinions. There's a difference between having an opinion and expressing it the way he chose to.
When you say "the way he chose to", I'm assuming you mean "respectfully and in consultation with many disparate groups of people, including servicemen, and then backed it up with community action".
Quote
2) where did Tim Thomas say he wasnt visiting the White House because Obama is black? Maybe I missed that one, but it seems like a pretty big assumption on your part.
No, he didn't say that. He's not that dumb. I know someone who has friends in the Bruins organisation and was left in no doubt as to why he wouldn't go to the White House.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2017, 08:22:28 PM
Anonymous Sourcez, got it.
Post by: Pope on January 16, 2017, 08:27:16 PM
What kind of bundle of sticks kneels for a national anthem?
Post by: Miamipuck on January 16, 2017, 09:20:27 PM
He also didn't even vote
What kind of bundle of sticks kneels for a national anthem?
There's also this, all that sideshow kneeling bullshit and that scumbag didn't even vote. I want that piece of excrement nowhere near the Jets, freak that guy.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2017, 09:41:13 PM
Post by: Tommy on January 16, 2017, 09:45:54 PM
He's a piece of excrement. No thanks.
Post by: Tommy on January 16, 2017, 09:46:02 PM
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2017, 10:05:22 PM
I wouldn't care if Kaep was a probowler last season. I don't want that shitstained agenda of his anywhere near this team
But imagine the junc meltdown. He might actually become a Pats fan.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2017, 10:07:14 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2017, 10:42:18 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2017, 11:03:17 PM
And he has a punchable faceMy reasoning. Just look at him.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2017, 02:58:26 PM
Basically giving us no roll-over
Quote
Right now, the Jets face serious cap issues. The cap is projected at $168 million for the 2017 league year -- some experts say $170 million -- and the Jets are at $168.4 million, according to overthecap.com.
In other words, they have some cutting to do before March 9, when the league year begins.
The Jets have until Feb. 15 to exercise the options for Ryan Clady and Erin Henderson. If they decline, they'd save $10 million and $2.75 million, respectively. That would at least give them some breathing room before they have to make the tough decisions -- i.e. David Harris, Nick Mangold, Darrelle Revis and Brandon Marshall.
Per Cimini
These guys really made some bad moves cap wise inheriting this team from idziky
Post by: bojanglesman on January 19, 2017, 03:28:53 PM
Only two teams spent less money than the Jets this season
Basically giving us no roll-over
Per Cimini
These guys really made some bad moves cap wise inheriting this team from idziky
All bullshit. The Jets are a few easy cuts away from having ample cap space. Clady is $10 million by himself.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 19, 2017, 03:47:15 PM
All bullshit. The Jets are a few easy cuts away from having ample cap space. Clady is $10 million by himself.
Yeah, I know they have to sell but I still don't understand why they keep on insisting that the Jets have no cap room when everybody knows they will make those cuts.
Post by: Tommy on January 19, 2017, 03:51:40 PM
Yeah, I know they have to sell but I still don't understand why they keep on insisting that the Jets have no cap room when everybody knows they will make those cuts.
Why would the media ever write something positive about the Jets?
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2017, 05:04:16 PM
All bullshit. The Jets are a few easy cuts away from having ample cap space. Clady is $10 million by himself.
Signing our rookies is like 6 million. Let's also forget that cutting starters, like Clady, means we need to get someone else to fill that spot.
Sure we can cut guys, but our cap position isn't by any means good
Post by: Libero_2 on January 19, 2017, 06:26:24 PM
Signing our rookies is like 6 million. Let's also forget that cutting starters, like Clady, means we need to get someone else to fill that spot.
Sure we can cut guys, but our cap position isn't by any means good
About a month ago an article came out about the teams with the most cap flexibility (after potential cuts that made some sense) we came in with about $38.6 million dollars. Something like 3rd or 4th on the list.
Like or dislike the moves Duff made two years ago, he built each and every contract with an out after two years save for the Revis deal, where the real easy out comes next year. Now he reorganized the Skrine deal to get Fitz in the door, and IMO those two moves are (in retrospect obviously) his worst two individual moves as Jets GM to date.
Post by: Pope on January 19, 2017, 06:51:58 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2017, 07:01:47 PM
About a month ago an article came out about the teams with the most cap flexibility (after potential cuts that made some sense) we came in with about $38.6 million dollars. Something like 3rd or 4th on the list.
$38.6M in space would put us around 14th or 15th on the list before anyone else has made any cuts.
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/
This team is not going to be hugely aggressive in free agency because we are going to struggle to compete for the high profile FAs.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2017, 07:18:33 PM
Although if we could trade Sheldon Richardson that saves us both a boat load of cash, and gets us an early draft pick to help address other needs
Post by: bojanglesman on January 19, 2017, 07:25:58 PM
But the guys we can cut to save money will leave us severely devoid of talent at key positions we already suck at. Notably our OL, WR, and DB.Sheldon will be gone. Bank on that.
Although if we could trade Sheldon Richardson that saves us both a boat load of cash, and gets us an early draft pick to help address other needs
I don't mind signing some low risk, high reward guys from other teams. Backups that haven't gotten a chance. Maybe splurge on 1 player that could contribute beyond the rebuild.
Between Clady, Sheldon, and Revis, you have about $27 million off the books. This team will have all the money it needs for 2017. Anyone worrying about our cap room is wrong.
Post by: Johnny English on January 19, 2017, 07:50:13 PM
Sheldon will be gone. Bank on that.
I don't mind signing some low risk, high reward guys from other teams. Backups that haven't gotten a chance. Maybe splurge on 1 player that could contribute beyond the rebuild.
Between Clady, Sheldon, and Revis, you have about $27 million off the books. This team will have all the money it needs for 2017. Anyone worrying about our cap room is wrong.
In isolation, cap room numbers are fairly irrelevant. They only matter in context i.e. relative to how much everyone else has, and most teams will have more than us - some a lot more.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 19, 2017, 07:53:12 PM
Sheldon will be gone. Bank on that.
I don't mind signing some low risk, high reward guys from other teams. Backups that haven't gotten a chance. Maybe splurge on 1 player that could contribute beyond the rebuild.
Between Clady, Sheldon, and Revis, you have about $27 million off the books. This team will have all the money it needs for 2017. Anyone worrying about our cap room is wrong.
27 million off the books with no left tackle, qb, or defensive secondary.
Plus figure at least 6-7 million has to go to draft picks (more if Richardson gets us a nice haul)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 19, 2017, 08:43:19 PM
27 million off the books with no left tackle, qb, or defensive secondary.They aren't the only ones hitting the bricks. Gilchrist, Breno, possibly Marshall and Decker. 3 of those 4 are already replaced by someone on the roster. It's wrong to say we have no secondary already signed. Sure we'll need to sign a safety and a corner, but Pryor is here still. Someone already on this roster will be a starting corner.
Plus figure at least 6-7 million has to go to draft picks (more if Richardson gets us a nice haul)
There isn't a left tackle worth what Clady is due, so whoever we sign will net cash there. We aren't likely to invest heavily at QB either. Just a cheap veteran.
The Jets have plenty of room to maneuver. Maybe not to the degree Jacksonville or Cleveland can, but they aren't the Saints.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 20, 2017, 09:01:24 AM
It's going to be hard to watch next year. Harder than this year. But at the end of the day, they shouldn't be spending much money even after the cuts this year. That will also serve as some nice rollover cash for 2018 when there's a clearer picture of the direction this team is headed in.
Post by: Tommy on January 20, 2017, 09:11:04 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 20, 2017, 09:50:04 AM
Having cap space also only matters if you're close enough for a few key signings to matter. This team has positions where backups have been starters.
It's going to be hard to watch next year. Harder than this year. But at the end of the day, they shouldn't be spending much money even after the cuts this year. That will also serve as some nice rollover cash for 2018 when there's a clearer picture of the direction this team is headed in.
See, I don't think next year will be that hard to watch because the expectations are low. This year sucked because we all had our hopes up after 2015. I can deal with a losing season better when I know it's because we are young and building, not old and falling apart.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 20, 2017, 10:05:27 AM
Oh wait, our Oline.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 20, 2017, 10:16:54 AM
Yeah what good is cap space when we don't have anyone of note to sign?
Exactly. I'd rather save it as rollover cash for when we can actually utilize it.
That said, if they could make a big signing for a corner, safety, or tackle that would still be worthwhile in a few years, I wouldn't complain.
See, I don't think next year will be that hard to watch because the expectations are low. This year sucked because we all had our hopes up after 2015. I can deal with a losing season better when I know it's because we are young and building, not old and falling apart.
That's fair. I just hate to watch them lose, so even when I expect it I suffer through it.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 22, 2017, 08:47:36 PM
Post by: ukilledkenny on January 22, 2017, 10:02:30 PM
Hopefully the Jets can learn to follow the Packers, Steelers, and Patriots of the league and build from within, not expensive free agency. It all starts with the draft.
Every team knows that's what you should do but you need to have insane drafts 3-4 years in a row or pull a hall of famer out of your derriere to make the misses not really matter.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 24, 2017, 12:46:25 PM
Quote
Gil Brandt
Verified account
@Gil_Brandt
Following
Really good-looking group of CBs at @seniorbowl, including Jourdan Lewis, Desmond King and Tre'Davious White. Strong draft for CBs this year
1:44 PM - 24 Jan 2017
Would love to have a guy named Tre'Davious on the team.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 24, 2017, 01:02:21 PM
Would love to have a guy named Tre'Davious on the team.
I like his last name more.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 24, 2017, 01:09:55 PM
I like his last name more.
Middle name is Aint
Post by: Miamipuck on January 24, 2017, 01:25:12 PM
Middle name is Aint
That's not correct, lots and lots of white parents name their kids Tre'Davious. I know for a fact IATA is naming his next boy, Tre'Davious, if he's drafted by the Jets. Badger might as well. Heismanberg already picked D'Brickashaw.
Post by: Badger on January 24, 2017, 02:13:11 PM
That's not correct, lots and lots of white parents name their kids Tre'Davious. I know for a fact IATA is naming his next boy, Tre'Davious, if he's drafted by the Jets. Badger might as well. Heismanberg already picked D'Brickashaw.LaDainian is more my speed.
Post by: IATA on January 24, 2017, 09:25:41 PM
That's not correct, lots and lots of white parents name their kids Tre'Davious. I know for a fact IATA is naming his next boy, Tre'Davious, if he's drafted by the Jets. Badger might as well. Heismanberg already picked D'Brickashaw.
If it's a girl it's La'Quinta Suites LastName
Post by: Heismanberg on January 24, 2017, 09:26:33 PM
That's not correct, lots and lots of white parents name their kids Tre'Davious. I know for a fact IATA is naming his next boy, Tre'Davious, if he's drafted by the Jets. Badger might as well. Heismanberg already picked D'Brickashaw.
I also have dibs on Shartavious
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2017, 09:51:10 PM
I also have dibs on ShartaviousNo apostrophe. What a hoo-ha.
Post by: insanity on January 25, 2017, 12:46:40 PM
Would love to have a guy named Tre'Davious on the team.
I wonder if his dad's name is Dos'Davious
Post by: steves850 on January 25, 2017, 02:36:35 PM
I wonder if his dad's name is Dos'Davious
It's pretty fucked up that
Tre'Davious
Dos'Davious
Un'Davious
are all believable names.
Whatever happened to tradition names like Steve, Insanity, or Bojanglesman....
Post by: Johnny English on January 25, 2017, 02:39:10 PM
Un'Davious
Would just be Davious, surely? The parents of the first Davious have no way of knowing that he's going to have another Davious.
Although Davious's dad could be Pre'Davious.
Post by: steves850 on January 25, 2017, 02:40:59 PM
Would just be Davious, surely? The parents of the first Davious have no way of knowing that he's going to have another Davious.
Although Davious's dad could be Pre'Davious.
After he names his son Dos'Davious he must change his name to Un'Davious. Much like adding the senior suffix.
Post by: Fenwyr on January 26, 2017, 10:19:05 AM
After he names his son Dos'Davious he must change his name to Un'Davious. Much like adding the senior suffix.Wouldn't it Uno'Davious?
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Post by: Fenwyr on January 26, 2017, 10:20:19 AM
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 26, 2017, 10:43:24 AM
Have to chose between spanish and french here.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
I vote Spanish.
(http://d27r4x5u2i72dc.cloudfront.net/uploads/maxresdefault13-e1440451983216.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 10:51:25 AM
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2017, 10:58:26 AM
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/113378633_7b65c8b2c1.jpg)
Post by: Fenwyr on January 26, 2017, 11:04:00 AM
I vote Spanish.I concur.
(http://d27r4x5u2i72dc.cloudfront.net/uploads/maxresdefault13-e1440451983216.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Post by: Fenwyr on January 26, 2017, 11:05:41 AM
Not so fast, France isn't giving up without a fight:Without the 10 pounds of makeup she could like you.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/113378633_7b65c8b2c1.jpg)
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 11:06:27 AM
Not so fast, France isn't giving up without a fight:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/113378633_7b65c8b2c1.jpg)
Does this model come with deodorant? Same question for Spanish lady.
Post by: Johnny English on January 26, 2017, 11:12:46 AM
Without the 10 pounds of makeup she could like you.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
https://www.google.ca/search?q=melissa+theuriau
You're welcome.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 26, 2017, 11:14:57 AM
Not so fast, France isn't giving up without a fight:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/113378633_7b65c8b2c1.jpg)
I see you and raise you one Univision weather lady, my friend.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7e/0c/f6/7e0cf612d631940324ac2476235a1056.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 11:32:40 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8a/e7/b3/8ae7b3c4e9a8e85c0ec84bbbdca1b3b9.png)
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 26, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 11:45:10 AM
What do you even search to find something like that?Heismanberg spank bank
Post by: Pope on January 26, 2017, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on January 26, 2017, 12:28:52 PM
https://www.google.ca/search?q=melissa+theuriau
You're welcome.
Much rather have a French girl versus a Spanish broad. They like to freak and don't bitch at you nearly as much.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 26, 2017, 12:29:50 PM
Any good pics of Sam Champion?
Wasn't familiar, but I Google Imaged her (I thought) for you. Here you go:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/66/85/ce6685fa32ae55a5d8943a09cc0ff8bb.jpg)
Whatever floats your boat.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 26, 2017, 12:30:53 PM
Much rather have a French girl versus a Spanish broad. They like to freak and don't bitch at you nearly as much.
What would you know about Spanish girls? You live in......oh, right.
Post by: Pope on January 26, 2017, 12:38:25 PM
Wasn't familiar, but I Google Imaged her (I thought) for you. Here you go:Thank you
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ce/66/85/ce6685fa32ae55a5d8943a09cc0ff8bb.jpg)
Whatever floats your boat.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 26, 2017, 12:38:55 PM
What would you know about Spanish girls? You live in......oh, right.
Exactly, they don't ever shut the freak up at least a French gal will drink some wine and loosen up versus demand the code for your phone and want to know all your friends.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 12:54:27 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on January 26, 2017, 12:56:00 PM
Damn, Sam Champion is in good shape. You go girl.
In before Puck says you're gay.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 26, 2017, 12:56:11 PM
...and want to know all your friends.
That wouldn't take long.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 12:56:11 PM
Exactly, they don't ever shut the freak up at least a French gal will drink some wine and loosen up versus demand the code for your phone and want to know all your friends.Only French girl you've ever banged is the French fry guy at Burger King. He has a yuuuuge clitoris.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 26, 2017, 01:23:03 PM
Only French girl you've ever banged is the French fry guy at Burger King. He has a yuuuuge clitoris.
It was under 2.5 inches. I know plenty of French gals.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 26, 2017, 01:24:07 PM
That wouldn't take long.
For you maybe
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 01:43:26 PM
It was under 2.5 inches. I know plenty of French gals.
I also know plenty of girls that would never talk to me.
Post by: Miamipuck on January 26, 2017, 04:09:02 PM
I also know plenty of girls that would never talk to me.
With you that's every broad, I bet your wife won't even talk to you.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 26, 2017, 04:36:55 PM
With you that's every broad, I bet your wife won't even talk to you.Just because that's true doesn't make you any less atrocious.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 27, 2017, 03:01:31 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on January 27, 2017, 06:34:11 PM
Just because that's true doesn't make you any less atrocious.
Go stick on a twelve inch "clitty"
Post by: MexJetinBcn on February 03, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Quote
2017 Senior Bowl: Tuesday Rumor Mill
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell
With all the general managers, coaches and scouts in attendance for the Senior Bowl, there is a lot of chatter going around. Here are some of the highlights from the rumor mill on Day 2.
There were reports that the New York Jets are all over North Carolina quarterback Mitch Trubisky. When I told this to Jets sources, they rolled their eyes and shook their head. They said that general manager Mike Maccagnan has them work more in depth on early entry players later in the process and not during the fall, so it is way too early to say that for almost any non-senior.
These sources also said that quarterback Christian Hackenberg developed well behind the scenes as a rookie. Citing Jared Goff with the Rams as an example of a quarterback playing before he was prepared, the Jets didn't want to force Hackenberg on the field before he was ready and end up doing damage to him. This analyst wouldn't be surprised if the Jets went the veteran quarterback route to compete and see how their young quarterbacks improve in 2017.
Sources were adamant that the Jets would also take the best player available in the first round. This is the M.O. for general manager Mike Maccagnan. In his first draft with the Jets, he took Leonard Williams despite being strong at his position. Darron Lee fit that trend as well, as many expected Lee to be gone by the time New York was on the clock. In his final draft with Houston as the director of college scouting in 2014, the Texans wisely passed on Blake Bortles and Johnny Manziel for Jadeveon Clowney. In the two drafts before that, the Texans landed DeAndre Hopkins and Whitney Mercilus late in the first round. Thus, Maccagnan's track record is clear, and the Jets are going to take the best player available with the sixth-overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2017, 04:26:22 PM
Time for Darron Lee, Burris, Enunwa, Robby Anderson, Peake, Devin Smith, Shell, Mauldin, and Jordan Jenkins to start and stay on the field.
Post by: MBGreen on February 08, 2017, 04:40:24 PM
How would you guys feel about an aggressive roster gutting? I'm not talking about cutting a couple of old farts. I'm talking about cutting/trading Revis, Marshall, Decker, Sheldon, Gilchrist, Breno, Clady, Skrine, maybe more. Possibly Mangold and Harris too if salary adjustments can't be made. I can't say I'd want to be that aggressive, but it would be a refreshing sight. Mangold and Harris are the only 2 I'd hate to see go for sentimental reasons. Time to see what Bowles can do with teaching younger guys. Time for Darron Lee, Burris, Enunwa, Robby Anderson, Peake, Devin Smith, Shell, Mauldin, and Jordan Jenkins to all start and stay on the field."Two in the pink and one in the stink...that's called the Shockahhh"
/Steel Panther
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2017, 04:42:17 PM
"Two in the pink and one in the stink...that's called the Shockahhh"
/Steel Panther
What's the reverse called? A Brownout?
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2017, 04:42:58 PM
Post by: Johnny English on February 08, 2017, 05:06:30 PM
If we are going to struggle, I'd rather see if be 23 year old players, not David Harris getting burned on a wheel route for the 458th time.The counter to that rather silly position obviously being that you don't expect young players to go and figure it out all by themselves, you put them alongside quality veterans like Harris on the field, and especially in the locker room and film rooms, and help them to learn.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 08, 2017, 05:21:09 PM
The counter to that rather silly position obviously being that you don't expect young players to go and figure it out all by themselves, you put them alongside quality veterans like Harris on the field, and especially in the locker room and film rooms, and help them to learn.
Hence why I said I wouldn't want to be as aggressive as a full on gutting. I agree it would be silly to cut all of them. I'd like to keep Harris and Mangold. I'd like for Harris to become more of a 2 down back. I don't really care to have both Marshall and Decker back. Honestly I think Decker would be the better compliment to Enunwa, but injury may determine that outcome. Too much of a backlog of talent at WR to have Anderson and Peake as #4 and 5 WRs.
I'm not saying that we need to be devoid of veterans, but they need to start handing the keys to the Buick over to the younger guys.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 26, 2017, 01:27:05 PM
I'm fully prepared for the growing pains and bad record for a few years, but at least there's hope, not a bunch of old vets mailing it in. Hopefully Duff keeps it going with some good draft picks.
Can't wait to be the young, up and coming team.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 26, 2017, 01:28:40 PM
I'm a little bit excited that it appears the Jets are actually committing to starting over completely. I hate seeing Mangold go, but otherwise it's all good.
I'm fully prepared for the growing pains and bad record for a few years, but at least there's hope, not a bunch of old vets mailing it in. Hopefully Duff keeps it going with some good draft picks.
Can't wait to be the young, up and coming team.
I just hope this team released Darrelle Revis. That's the biggest step this team needs to take when it comes to starting over.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 26, 2017, 01:32:10 PM
I just hope this team released Darrelle Revis. That's the biggest step this team needs to take when it comes to starting over.Cimini keeps hinting that it's going to happen. I think he knows something. He's been saying all along that the Jets aren't just going to cut a few guys, there will be a whole new team. So far he's right. Cutting Mangold is a big statement.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 26, 2017, 01:34:49 PM
Cimini keeps hinting that it's going to happen. I think he knows something. He's been saying all along that the Jets aren't just going to cut a few guys, there will be a whole new team. So far he's right. Cutting Mangold is a big statement.
I said it earlier in another thread, but I don't see us cutting David Harris as of right now. If we end up with Reuben Foster at 6, then we might see that happen...but until then, he's probably here for one more year.
I'd like to see us move on from Darrelle Revis, Marcus Gilchrist, Sheldon Richardson, and Brandon Marshall. I really like Marshall, but this team is not going to be competitive and I don't want to hold onto him until his blows up again.
Getting rid of Revis, Richardson, and Marshall starts a culture change - I actually like what Marshall has brought to this team, but he really does nothing for a non-competitive, young team. Mangold was always a positive presence for this team, but it was time to move on.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 26, 2017, 01:37:17 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 26, 2017, 01:38:23 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 26, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Harris should stay. Mainly for his brain, not talent. Hopefully Lee takes over that role soon.
So he can explain to the young guys how bad we are? Might as well cut him too.
Post by: Miamipuck on February 26, 2017, 09:34:14 PM
So he can explain to the young guys how bad we are? Might as well cut him too.
I think the Jets should hire you to tell them how bad they are and give them some perspective.
Post by: Pope on February 26, 2017, 09:37:19 PM
I think the Jets should hire you to tell them how bad they are and give them some perspective.Plenty of retards on Facebook for that
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 09:59:22 AM
Not even counting guys that are useful but not starting but useful like Peake and Jalin Marshall.
Not bad.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 27, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
Duff has done a wonderful job in the mid-late round picks/UDFA. We may have 4 starters next year from that category I just 2 years of drafting. Burris, Simon, Shell, Anderson. Might even be 5 if God forbid Petty starts.
Not bad.
Jordan Jenkins should be a starter next year too.
Post by: Koz on February 27, 2017, 10:04:57 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 10:05:48 AM
Jordan Jenkins should be a starter next year too.I left out 3rd rounders. Depends on what mid-round means to you. Mauldin too in that case.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
Duff is 0 for 1 on Puntahs.I'm not bailing on Edwards yet.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 10:07:36 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 27, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
I'm counting on #DuffMagic to land us another 3rd round pick.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 27, 2017, 10:49:01 AM
CBSSports is reporting that the Jets have made trading Sheldon Richardson a priority in the coming weeks.
I'm counting on #DuffMagic to land us another 3rd round pick.
Rich Cimini reported it this morning too
Post by: MBGreen on February 27, 2017, 10:53:12 AM
Rich Cimini reported it this morning too
I have faith in #DuffMagic to get top dollar for him.
Even though the draft is loaded with pass rushers this year.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 27, 2017, 10:54:02 AM
I have faith in #DuffMagic to get top dollar for him.
We're not going to get top dollar for him because of who he is and what he's done off the field.
I'd be OK with a third rounder for him at this point.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 27, 2017, 10:57:36 AM
We're not going to get top dollar for him because of who he is and what he's done off the field.
I'd be OK with a third rounder for him at this point.
Wouldn't there be a solid chance we get at LEAST a second for him? I mean anyone who trades for him owes him nothing after this year, and could let him walk and almost certainly recoupe a compensatory 3rd round pick making it a moderate to moderately low risk move
At worst he's a solid one year rental, at best he's an all pro fixture in a defense for the next 7+ years
Post by: MBGreen on February 27, 2017, 11:07:27 AM
We're not going to get top dollar for him because of who he is and what he's done off the field.
I'd be OK with a third rounder for him at this point.
I'm fine with a 3rd as well. But sometimes that Duff...he's magic.
Wouldn't there be a solid chance we get at LEAST a second for him? I mean anyone who trades for him owes him nothing after this year, and could let him walk and almost certainly recoupe a compensatory 3rd round pick making it a moderate to moderately low risk move
At worst he's a solid one year rental, at best he's an all pro fixture in a defense for the next 7+ years
If the draft had a weak pass rusher class, a 2nd might've been on the table.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 11:10:18 AM
Wouldn't there be a solid chance we get at LEAST a second for him? I mean anyone who trades for him owes him nothing after this year, and could let him walk and almost certainly recoupe a compensatory 3rd round pick making it a moderate to moderately low risk moveIt'll be interesting. On one hand everyone knows we aren't keeping him, he has 2 suspensions and a history of character concerns. On the other hand, he is elite when played in position and a team could move on after this year in a worst case scenario, so they aren't tied to him long term. We'll see. Hopefully we can get a bidding war going.
At worst he's a solid one year rental, at best he's an all pro fixture in a defense for the next 7+ years
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 11:24:02 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3rgXBOmTlzyFCURutG/200w.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 11:31:41 AM
Maybe Duff can get a pile of mid-round picks for him instead of something high.
Post by: mj2sexay on February 27, 2017, 12:37:12 PM
Post by: Laxin on February 27, 2017, 01:42:41 PM
Wouldn't there be a solid chance we get at LEAST a second for him? I mean anyone who trades for him owes him nothing after this year, and could let him walk and almost certainly recoupe a compensatory 3rd round pick making it a moderate to moderately low risk move
At worst he's a solid one year rental, at best he's an all pro fixture in a defense for the next 7+ years
Might be able to get a late 2nd from a team that thinks they are a great defensive player away from a title... maybe Dallas?
More than likely a 3rd though. Which for the Jets is better than a 2nd.
Post by: Fenwyr on February 27, 2017, 01:47:48 PM
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Post by: Italian Seafood on February 27, 2017, 01:48:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 27, 2017, 01:49:27 PM
He is better than anyone coming out this year.
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Jonathan Allen is better.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 27, 2017, 01:49:59 PM
If we can't get value for Richardson keep him. He's a good player, I know that's frowned upon but we're allowed to have a couple.
You are insufferable.
Post by: MBGreen on February 27, 2017, 02:02:58 PM
If we can't get value for Richardson keep him. He's a good player, I know that's frowned upon but we're allowed to have a couple.
This post is funny due to the fact that Richardson is the result of the last trade you "frowned" upon.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 27, 2017, 02:04:29 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 27, 2017, 02:06:59 PM
Maybe we get a 3rd and a player then. Because I think just a 3rd is a complete excrement deal for us. But maybe an Underperforming draft pick with potential kind of guy
it's not a excrement deal because Richardson is a repeat offender with the NFL, and a POS in real life.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 27, 2017, 02:09:59 PM
it's not a excrement deal because Richardson is a repeat offender with the NFL, and a POS in real life.
It is a POS deal because he's a borderline all pro player that's young and healthy at one of the most important positions in the league, and he's not guaranteed a ridiculous amount of money, and a team can basically walk away from him after a season and recoup their 3rd round pick.
I'm not disagreeing that we should trade him, just hoping we could sweeten the pot with something more than just a 3rd
Post by: MBGreen on February 27, 2017, 02:13:03 PM
It is a POS deal because he's a borderline all pro player that's young and healthy at one of the most important positions in the league, and he's not guaranteed a ridiculous amount of money, and a team can basically walk away from him after a season and recoup their 3rd round pick.
I'm not disagreeing that we should trade him, just hoping we could sweeten the pot with something more than just a 3rd
You're not listening...his character will affect his value whether you like or not, and I mentioned earlier in the thread that this year's draft class is loaded with pass rushers.
I understand what Richardson brings to the table as a player. He's elite.
I want top dollar for him, but there are too many factors working against us...it's shitty timing. Teams aren't stupid.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 27, 2017, 02:17:07 PM
You're not listening...his character will affect his value whether you like or not, and I mentioned earlier in the thread that this year's draft class is loaded with pass rushers.
I understand what Richardson brings to the table as a player. He's elite.
I want top dollar for him, but there are too many factors working against us...it's shitty timing. Teams aren't stupid.
Well of course we won't get top dollar, top dollar is a 1st and a 3rd or even a first.
But a late 2nd (from a team like Dallas) or even a 3rd and player seems viable
Post by: MBGreen on February 27, 2017, 02:18:16 PM
Well of course we won't get top dollar, top dollar is a 1st and a 3rd or even a first.
But a late 2nd (from a team like Dallas) or even a 3rd and player seems viable
Apparently we were offered a 2nd at the trade deadline, and we turned it down. The price went down....I'll be ecstatic if we get a 3rd rounder.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 27, 2017, 02:22:39 PM
I'd be happy with that
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 27, 2017, 03:00:33 PM
This post is funny due to the fact that Richardson is the result of the last trade you "frowned" upon.
So then humor can be seen from either side. Now we need to get rid of Richardson, who was the only justification you guys had for the last terrible trade. Milliner is out of football and Revis won a ring with the Pats, now Richardson needs to go? For another draft pick? So that guy can either be another bust or unloaded for another pick in a couple years? This is how you spend 50 years rebuilding.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 03:07:02 PM
So then humor can be seen from either side. Now we need to get rid of Richardson, who was the only justification you guys had for the last terrible trade. Milliner is out of football and Revis won a ring with the Pats, now Richardson needs to go? For another draft pick? So that guy can either be another bust or unloaded for another pick in a couple years? This is how you spend 50 years rebuilding.What do you propose the Jets do?
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 27, 2017, 03:28:53 PM
What do you propose the Jets do?
If you can't get value for him don't make a deal. Same as with Revis, if you know it's going to be a bad deal don't make it.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 04:04:36 PM
If you can't get value for him don't make a deal. Same as with Revis, if you know it's going to be a bad deal don't make it.Sometimes doing nothing is a worse deal.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 27, 2017, 04:28:43 PM
Sometimes doing nothing is a worse deal.
We should suck with Richardson on our roster and then not re-sign him. Then when we get a shitty comp pick, like a 6th or a 7th for him, Seafood can bitch and complain about how we let the best player on our team go without trying to bring him back.
Post by: Pope on February 27, 2017, 04:52:14 PM
We should suck with Richardson on our roster and then not re-sign him. Then when we get a shitty comp pick, like a 6th or a 7th for him, Seafood can bitch and complain about how we let the best player on our team go without trying to bring him back.I feel like Sheldon would net us a 3rd or 4th round comp pretty easily. We're not going to sign a premier DL and if he hits the open market he could net 10+ million a year with the cap being what it is. Ideally we get 3 or 4 teams in a bidding war and walk off with a 2nd round pick.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 04:53:55 PM
Post by: Pope on February 27, 2017, 05:04:16 PM
Don't know that teams will take that into account as much before free agency.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 27, 2017, 06:47:01 PM
Sometimes doing nothing is a worse deal.
True. My point is simple, if you can't get the value you should get for whatever reason, don't do it. Take your chances rather than make a deal you know is bad.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 27, 2017, 06:48:35 PM
- He's coming off the worst year of his career.
- He's had several off-field issues.
- He'll need to get paid a lot of money really soon.
- Other teams know we probably aren't keeping him after this year.
I would take a 3rd for Sheldon. In a vacuum, Sheldon the player is worth more than that. However, whichever team trades for him will have to also give him a lot of money, and do other teams trust Sheldon enough for that?
We already paid Wilkerson, and Leonard is a far better player to build around than Sheldon. I think it's pretty clear we get diminishing returns when we play all three together, and there were rumblings that Sheldon is a bad influence on Wilkerson. If that's the case, we need to put resources into making sure Wilkerson is the best player he can be.
The money you don't pay Richardson with can be used to pay someone else. And in the meantime, you get a 3rd-round pick.
A 4th-round pick would be hard to swallow though. If that's all we get, I might wait to get a compensatory pick for him. Maybe you trade him at the deadline if/when the season goes down the drain.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 27, 2017, 07:00:50 PM
True. My point is simple, if you can't get the value you should get for whatever reason, don't do it. Take your chances rather than make a deal you know is bad.I know paying him $8 million to play OLB is a terrible deal.
Post by: Fenwyr on February 27, 2017, 07:21:27 PM
Jonathan Allen is better.While I respect your opinion, are you really ready to say that before the kid has taken a single snap against a pro?
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Post by: dcm1602 on February 27, 2017, 07:39:26 PM
We have no leverage with Sheldon.
- He's coming off the worst year of his career.
- He's had several off-field issues.
- He'll need to get paid a lot of money really soon.
- Other teams know we probably aren't keeping him after this year.
I would take a 3rd for Sheldon. In a vacuum, Sheldon the player is worth more than that. However, whichever team trades for him will have to also give him a lot of money, and do other teams trust Sheldon enough for that?
We already paid Wilkerson, and Leonard is a far better player to build around than Sheldon. I think it's pretty clear we get diminishing returns when we play all three together, and there were rumblings that Sheldon is a bad influence on Wilkerson. If that's the case, we need to put resources into making sure Wilkerson is the best player he can be.
The money you don't pay Richardson with can be used to pay someone else. And in the meantime, you get a 3rd-round pick.
A 4th-round pick would be hard to swallow though. If that's all we get, I might wait to get a compensatory pick for him. Maybe you trade him at the deadline if/when the season goes down the drain.
Except no team would have to give him a lot of money or anything until after he has a "prove it" season.
Hes under contract for a reasonable number for just one year. If a team doesnt want to extend him they let him walk and recoup "most" of what they traded for him via an eventual compensatory pick. If Sheldon thrives they just got themselves a fixture in their defense, a borderline perennial allpro player, in which case they franchise tag him and then hash out a long term deal.
For other teams hes a low risk, high reward player. Any teams fans who trades for him should be thrilled
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 27, 2017, 09:25:43 PM
We have no leverage with Sheldon.
- He's coming off the worst year of his career.
- He's had several off-field issues.
- He'll need to get paid a lot of money really soon.
- Other teams know we probably aren't keeping him after this year.
This makes no sense. He's a fvck up coming off a bad year but he's going to command a lot of money? Can't be both.
Quote
We already paid Wilkerson, and Leonard is a far better player to build around than Sheldon. I think it's pretty clear we get diminishing returns when we play all three together, and there were rumblings that Sheldon is a bad influence on Wilkerson.
This is a better argument for getting rid of him, if that's the case then that's different. I'm just sick of this defeatist thinking that we're always backed into a corner and have to make a terrible deal. That's what we did with Revis, they panicked and made a historically terrible trade.
All I'm saying is don't do it again. If you know you're not getting the right value back don't do it. Do you risk getting nothing? Yes. That's the chance you take. We got nothing for Revis as it turns out when we could have kept him for $6 million in his prime.
Post by: Ornstein on February 27, 2017, 09:32:55 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 27, 2017, 09:51:40 PM
I know paying him $8 million to play OLB is a terrible deal.
I don't think you ever have enough good D linemen. Games are won and lost at the line of scrimmage, people get hurt. We're in a division with Brady, the only way to beat him is to knock the sh*t out of him. Let Richardson play out his last year and see what happens. If you get a good deal for him before that, great, if not you ride you ride it out and don't make a bad deal.
Post by: Miamipuck on February 28, 2017, 01:43:52 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 08:14:50 AM
Lol at trading Revis for a first and fourth being an historically bad deal. It wouldn't be in the top 100 bad deals, excrement it wasn't a bad deal at all.
Yeah, worked out real well. Milliner was a total bust, Saunders was gone by October, Revis won a ring with our arch rival, we ended up having to sign him back and everybody got fired. Not bad at all.
You can call it hindsight but I told you it was a terrible deal going in.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 08:30:28 AM
Yeah, worked out real well. Milliner was a total bust, Saunders was gone by October, Revis won a ring with our arch rival, we ended up having to sign him back and everybody got fired. Not bad at all.
You can call it hindsight but I told you it was a terrible deal going in.
#IdzikDaNinja
Post by: Miamipuck on February 28, 2017, 08:45:35 AM
Yeah, worked out real well. Milliner was a total bust, Saunders was gone by October, Revis won a ring with our arch rival, we ended up having to sign him back and everybody got fired. Not bad at all.
You can call it hindsight but I told you it was a terrible deal going in.
Revis winning a ring had everything to do with Idzik not him signing back. I make that Revis trade 100 times out of 100. With you running the team, Namath would still be handing off to Emerson Boozer and Joe Klecko would be the highest paid defensive player.
keep whining about a good football trade though.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 10:12:18 AM
Revis winning a ring had everything to do with Idzik not him signing back. I make that Revis trade 100 times out of 100. With you running the team, Namath would still be handing off to Emerson Boozer and Joe Klecko would be the highest paid defensive player.
keep whining about a good football trade though.
Tell me one thing that was good about it.
For the Jets, that is.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 10:15:04 AM
Tell me one thing that was good about it.
For the Jets, that is.
It provided eventual salary cap relief, and we got something in return instead of Revis leaving for nothing....
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 10:19:54 AM
It provided eventual salary cap relief, and we got something in return instead of Revis leaving for nothing....
He was signed for $6 million and coming off the cap after 2013 either way.
We got nothing of value back, would have been much better off with Revis for $6 million on a team that went 8-8 without him.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 10:22:33 AM
Post by: steves850 on February 28, 2017, 10:26:51 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 10:28:18 AM
He was signed for $6 million and coming off the cap after 2013 either way.
We got nothing of value back, would have been much better off with Revis for $6 million on a team that went 8-8 without him.
false.
Revis leaving for nothing is bad business. Plus, he was coming off a torn acl.
Richardson was a good draft pick.
I hate Idzik...but the Revis trade was on of the very few things he did well here.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 10:28:30 AM
A 1st and a 4th for Revis is a damn good deal. The fact we did excrement with it is a completely separate issue, just as Revis winning a ring with New England is irrelevant.
this.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 28, 2017, 10:38:48 AM
This "getting something back" idea is the carrot on a stick you guys keep falling for. Sometimes you're better off with the guy you have than getting back lesser value. Especially if he's playing for a new contract and coming off your books after the season.
This team isn't going to compete in 2017. What is the point of keeping a cancerous player on this team?
He doesn't have a true role on this team, he's a bad influence for younger players, and he's not going to be a part of the future. There is no reason to hang on to him.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on February 28, 2017, 10:47:33 AM
A 1st and a 4th for Revis is a damn good deal. The fact we did excrement with it is a completely separate issue, just as Revis winning a ring with New England is irrelevant.
I think that's the key. The trade wasn't bad per se but we fucked it up. In hindsight it was a very bad deal for the Jets but not because there was a problem with it. If we draft well and get a competent replacement instead of Dimitri freaking Patterson, then the narrative would have been completely different.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 10:51:46 AM
A 1st and a 4th for Revis is a damn good deal. The fact we did excrement with it is a completely separate issue..
No, it isn't separate. You traded a known quantity (Hall of Fame player) for a commodity that you didn't know how to use correctly. What you got back wasn't nearly what you gave up, there was almost no way it was going to be, which us why it could be seen coming across the bridge.
A 1st and 4th looks good on paper, until you realize that neither player you took with either pick had a snowball's chance to be what we already knew Revis was.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 10:53:10 AM
Richardson was a good draft pick.
We didn't need to make the trade to draft him. We had the #9 pick and he was there.
Post by: steves850 on February 28, 2017, 10:55:03 AM
No, it isn't separate.
Yes the freak it is.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 10:55:37 AM
This team isn't going to compete in 2017. What is the point of keeping a cancerous player on this team?
He doesn't have a true role on this team, he's a bad influence for younger players, and he's not going to be a part of the future. There is no reason to hang on to him.
Again, this is a much better argument for getting rid of him than just the fear that we won't re-sign him. If you believe he's that bad for the team, then you probably can get back something in a trade that you think is better for the team. Not sure I agree but it's much more sound thinking that just "we need to get something back" because you never get back what you give up when you think that way.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 10:56:20 AM
Yes the freak it is.
How? It's what you got back in the trade, it's the same trade.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2017, 10:56:55 AM
Also, could you ever see any circumstance to trade any player for a draft pick?
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 10:57:37 AM
I'm not going down this road again.
I can't tell if you're just stubborn or if you're completely oblivious to how a salary cap works.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 11:01:11 AM
1) AT THE TIME...the deal was great business. Especially when teams KNEW that Revis could walk away after a year.
2) Yes, we pissed away the draft picks we received in the deal (Thanks Idzik). Despite Richardson being a great pick....drafting Milliner turned out to be a disaster, like the majority of the draft class.
How we used the draft picks is a separate issue from the deal itself. I would trust Tommy with making draft selections before I would trust Idzik again.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 11:03:24 AM
So just to be clear, you'd recommend holding on to Sheldon, pay him $8 million to play OLB and maybe DE is there is an injury? So basically use him like they did last year.
Also, could you ever see any circumstance to trade any player for a draft pick?
If you believe, like Heismanberg says, that he's no good for the team and has no future here, then trade him if you think you're getting back a high enough pick to justify it. Otherwise keep him and put him on the field.
Personally I think he's a good player, we used the #13 overall on him four years ago, a decent defensive coach should be able to put him in an effective role. If I can't get back what I think is a good return I keep him and take my chances.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 11:05:09 AM
oh for freak sakes.
I can't tell if you're just stubborn or if you're completely oblivious to how a salary cap works.
The cap had nothing to do with it. He was signed for $6 million in 2013 (without the option to hold out) and coming off the books, into the 2014 off season when we had a ton of cap space and almost resigned him anyway.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2017, 11:12:28 AM
If you believe, like Heismanberg says, that he's no good for the team and has no future here, than trade him if you think you're getting back a high enough pick to justify it. Otherwise keep him and put him on the field.
Personally I think he's a good player, we used the #13 overall on him four years ago, a decent defensive coach should be able to put him in an effective role. If I can't get back what I think is a good return I keep him and take my chances.
Fair enough.
I don't know it is possible to put him in an effective role on a team with Mo and Leonard Williams. We have three 3-4 defensive ends. That doesn't work in a 3-4 or a 4-3. In a 3-4, one will either be playing out of position (linebacker) or on the bench. None of them are a true 4-3 DE. It's easy to just say "a good coach will find a way", but you can't always.
Once Leonard Williams was drafted, it was a matter of time before the Jets had to decide between Mo and Sheldon. I would have gone with Sheldon until that drag racing with a kid and a gun thing happened.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 11:18:44 AM
Fair enough.
I don't know it is possible to put him in an effective role on a team with Mo and Leonard Williams. We have three 3-4 defensive ends. That doesn't work in a 3-4 or a 4-3. In a 3-4, one will either be playing out of position (linebacker) or on the bench. None of them are a true 4-3 DE.
Once Leonard Williams was drafted, it was a matter of time before the Jets had to decide between Mo and Sheldon. I would have gone with Sheldon until that drag racing with a kid and a gun thing happened.
I think a good coach in any sport adjusts what he's doing to the players he has, at least to some degree. It's like when we traded Vilma because he didn't fit the new scheme at the time, just stupid. The whole idea of drafting is to try and compile good players, to keep getting rid of good players in their prime while you're drafting new ones is counter-productive. Once in a while in an odd situation, sure, maybe this is one of those, I don't know. Just seems like we've been doing it forever and it never works out. We got two #1s for Keyshawn, we got less for Revis than we got for him, think about that.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 12:13:45 PM
The cap had nothing to do with it. He was signed for $6 million in 2013 (without the option to hold out) and coming off the books, into the 2014 off season when we had a ton of cap space and almost resigned him anyway.
The cap was very much in play. Revis wanted a big contract...
Forget about that last year of his deal. Keeping him on that current contract and then losing him to FA was bad business. The Jets FO determined they couldn't afford him, so they traded him. I'm sorry that doesn't resonate with you.
We didn't "almost" re-sign him.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 12:20:44 PM
The cap was very much in play. Revis wanted a big contract...
Forget about that last year of his deal. Keeping him on that current contract and then losing him to FA was bad business. The Jets FO determined they couldn't afford him, so they traded him. I'm sorry that doesn't resonate with you.
We didn't "almost" re-sign him.
We had the chance and the cap space by spring 2014. which we would have had either way. Why should I forget the last year of his deal where he was signed to a cap-friendly $6 million? Because it blows up your argument? That was the whole benefit of keeping him, the season that was coming up.
What was bad business was letting our best player get away and then going 8-8 and missing the playoffs. It was also bad business to acquire two picks for him and use them on stiffs. Bad business is not knowing how to use something and paying a steep price for it anyway.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 12:24:21 PM
We had the chance and the cap space by spring 2014. which we would have had either way. Why should I forget the last year of his deal where he was signed to a cap-friendly $6 million? Because it blows up your argument? That was the whole benefit of keeping him, the season that was coming up.
What was bad business was letting our best player get away and then going 8-8 and missing the playoffs. It was also bad business to acquire two picks for him and using them on stiffs. Bad business is not knowing how to use something and paying a steep prince for it anyway.
How does it blow up my argument? Revis was going to leave, in his prime, and we would've received nothing for him but a compensatory pick. We weren't winning excrement in his last season with us...trading him was very proactive, and the smart thing to do at that time.
Also, for the umpteenth time, what we did with the picks was a separate issue altogether.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 12:33:08 PM
How does it blow up my argument? Revis was going to leave, in his prime, and we would've received nothing for him but a compensatory pick. We weren't winning excrement in his last season with us...trading him was very proactive, and the smart thing to do at that time.
Also, for the umpteenth time, what we did with the picks was a separate issue altogether.
What we did with the picks is the issue, that's what we traded for. I told you then we're not drafting anyone who will be Revis, didn't take a genius. But we got "something", which ended up being a costlier, more time consuming nothing.
Call it "proactive" if you want to, it's the defeatist attitude I'm talking about that we've had for decades, and why we don't win. You don't know how we would have done with him that season, we went 8-8 without him and at the time of the trade had no idea we'd lose our QB for the year in pre-season.
Which brings me back to the here and now and the same defeatist crap. "We're not going to win anyway", "he's going to leave", "we can't afford him". Fine, never keep a good player and go another 50 years without winning anything. If you think Richardson is a cancer or a bad player that's a different argument, but even with that don't make another terrible deal where you can't possibly get back what you're giving up.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 12:35:50 PM
Call it "proactive" if you want to, it's the defeatist attitude I'm talking about that we've had for decades, and why we don't win. You don't know how we would have done with him that season, we went 8-8 without him and at the time of the trade had no idea we'd lose our QB for the year in pre-season.
Which brings me back to the here and now and the same defeatist crap. "We're not going to win anyway", "he's going to leave", "we can't afford him". Fine, never keep a good player and go another 50 years without winning anything. If you think Richardson is a cancer or a bad player that's a different argument, but even with that don't make another terrible deal where you can't possibly get back what you're giving up.
ahhh here we go...I was wondering when your long history of being a fan of a losing team was going to surface. That's the root of your issue and the reason why you can't see the benefit of that trade. Thanks for finally admitting that.
We can all go back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 12:37:20 PM
ahhh here we go...I was wondering when your long history of being a fan of a losing team was going to surface. That's the root of your issue and the reason why you can't see the benefit of that trade. Thanks for finally admitting that.
We can all go back to our regularly scheduled programming.
It's not my history, it's their history. You would think they'd learn from it but they never seem to.
Tell me the benefit we got from the trade. It wasn't cap space, we didn't win anything, haven't still been back to the playoffs. We ended up re-signing Revis. The people who made the trade all got canned.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2017, 12:39:03 PM
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 12:41:24 PM
I think our shitty drafts for a decade before Duff have lots to do with the Jets not winning consistently.
of course it is.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 12:42:00 PM
It's not my history, it's their history. You would think they'd learn from it but they never seem to.
Tell me the benefit we got from the trade. It wasn't cap space, we didn't win anything, haven't still been back to the playoffs. We ended up re-signing Revis. The people who made the trade all got canned.
Tell me the benefit of keeping Revis (coming off a torn ACL btw) and then losing him for nothing after another mediocre year.
Post by: steves850 on February 28, 2017, 12:42:30 PM
Call it "proactive" if you want to, it's the defeatist attitude I'm talking about that we've had for decades, and why we don't win. You don't know how we would have done with him that season, we went 8-8 without him and at the time of the trade had no idea we'd lose our QB for the year in pre-season.
Which brings me back to the here and now and the same defeatist crap. "We're not going to win anyway", "he's going to leave", "we can't afford him". Fine, never keep a good player and go another 50 years without winning anything. If you think Richardson is a cancer or a bad player that's a different argument, but even with that don't make another terrible deal where you can't possibly get back what you're giving up.
Sheldon is an elite player, with a excrement attitude, in a position where we have comparable players.
You cut out the cancer on the locker room when everything else is fairly level.
Do you really think the GM of any NFL team is thinking "we're not going to win anyway, let the guy walk out the door" - seriously your argument is ridiculous. Who gives a excrement if fans all think "SOJ - they're going to lose again this year" That has absolutely no bearing on any damn thing.
Do you really think the Jets 'never keep a good player?' How about Mangold, Brick, Harris, Wilk, Ellis - That's just off the top of my head. You can't keep every player throughout their career - it's the era of Free Agency. Your argument is all heart and no substance. Take a step back and really evaluate the situation.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 12:47:07 PM
Tell me the benefit of keeping Revis (coming off a torn ACL btw) and then losing him for nothing after another mediocre year.
Revis for the one year he was under contract and in his prime would have been more production than we got from the entire careers of Milliner and Saunders. That's more benefit than we got from the trade. And we wouldn't have wasted the years and money we did on Milliner, losing Revis for nothing would have been better.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 12:54:05 PM
Revis for the one year he was under contract and in his prime would have been more production than we got from the entire careers of Milliner and Saunders. That's more benefit than we got from the trade. And we wouldn't have wasted the years and money we did on Milliner, losing Revis for nothing would have been better.
you are wrong.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 12:57:19 PM
Sheldon is an elite player, with a excrement attitude, in a position where we have comparable players.
You cut out the cancer on the locker room when everything else is fairly level.
Do you really think the GM of any NFL team is thinking "we're not going to win anyway, let the guy walk out the door" - seriously your argument is ridiculous. Who gives a excrement if fans all think "SOJ - they're going to lose again this year" That has absolutely no bearing on any damn thing.
Do you really think the Jets 'never keep a good player?' How about Mangold, Brick, Harris, Wilk, Ellis - That's just off the top of my head. You can't keep every player throughout their career - it's the era of Free Agency. Your argument is all heart and no substance. Take a step back and really evaluate the situation.
Again, if it makes football sense to trade him that's fine. Yes, we've kept some good players but we've always been too quick to trade guys for picks when we know picks are a crapshoot at best, and usually waste them.
Each situation is different, Richardson isn't Revis. There have been good arguments made here to make the trade, all I'm saying is don't get fleeced again if you're not getting enough value back. You're better off letting the guy walk, at least you're getting a good contract year out of the guy which is often more than you get back. There was absolutely no justification for the Revis trade, it was plain as day we weren't drafting anyone who would be close to what Revis was at the time. It was also plain as day that by the time he hit free agency we'd have the cap space to try and sign him if we wanted to.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 12:59:07 PM
you are wrong.
How? How much did Milliner cost us? For what? Six games and two or three INTs? We'd have been better off with "nothing".
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 01:01:41 PM
How? How much did Milliner cost us? For what? Six games and two or three INTs? We'd have been better off with "nothing".
separate issues. You're using the outcome as the basis of your argument....which is incorrect.
Everyone here knows that Idzik fucked up the draft. But the trade to acquire those picks was necessary, and great business.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 01:03:52 PM
separate issues. You're using the outcome as the basis of your argument....which is incorrect.
Everyone here knows that Idzik fucked up the draft. But the trade to acquire those picks was necessary, and great business.
Except I said it then, before the outcome, because it was obvious what the outcome was going to be.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 01:05:47 PM
Except I said it then, before the outcome, because it was obvious what the outcome was going to be.
....
Post by: steves850 on February 28, 2017, 01:08:55 PM
Except I said it then, before the outcome, because it was obvious what the outcome was going to be.
So uhh... who are we going to draft at #6 then, Nostradamus?
This is beyond stupid and completely torpedoes any shred of an argument you had.
Post by: MBGreen on February 28, 2017, 01:20:28 PM
So uhh... who are we going to draft at #6 then, Nostradamus?
This is beyond stupid and completely torpedoes any shred of an argument you had.
He never had one. Common Sense raped his argument the first few times this discussion was had.
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 01:21:47 PM
So uhh... who are we going to draft at #6 then, Nostradamus?
This is beyond stupid and completely torpedoes any shred of an argument you had.
Because I knew nobody we drafted was going to be Revis? That was an easy one.
Post by: Miamipuck on February 28, 2017, 02:21:26 PM
A 1st and a 4th for Revis is a damn good deal. The fact we did excrement with it is a completely separate issue, just as Revis winning a ring with New England is irrelevant.
this.
Damn straight
Post by: Miamipuck on February 28, 2017, 02:30:05 PM
I think our shitty drafts for a decade before Duff have lots to do with the Jets not winning consistently.
Jesus H Christ, how is there any other answer than this?
The Jets for a huge period of time, 2008-2014, were in the top five worst drafting teams in the entire NFL. Their drafts were a laundry list of busts, bad picks and trading away pick after pick.
You don't win in a capped league drafting that bad, not in a million years. You need an influx if young cheap talent or the economics dictate your team will be too top heavy and will basically be putrid. Especially if a top player gets injured but we all know hire unlikely that I'd in the NFL.
The only reason they were somewhat competitive for a while, was the 06-07 drafts were that good. A blind squirrel finding a nut.
Duff has had two pretty good drafts so far, if he hit on his second rounders they could have been great drafts.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2017, 02:35:45 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 02:49:58 PM
Post by: Tommy on February 28, 2017, 03:12:54 PM
All the more reason you don't unload the few good guys you did draft in their prime for more picks who are less likely to be any good.
But we don't need him, and he's expensive. What do we have to gain by not trading him while he's of any value? Better to get something than still suck next year and watch him walk away.
Post by: Miamipuck on February 28, 2017, 04:27:36 PM
But we don't need him, and he's expensive. What do we have to gain by not trading him while he's of any value? Better to get something than still suck next year and watch him walk away.
Good god Seafood even Tommyanne gets the concept.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 28, 2017, 05:26:22 PM
But we don't need him, and he's expensive. What do we have to gain by not trading him while he's of any value? Better to get something than still suck next year and watch him walk away.
The only thing is we could roll the dice on him and keep him. I mean there are pretty good odds we could get a 3rd round comp pick for him. So if we kept him for a year and walked we could get a 3rd. He could also have a resurgence year and get his excrement together off the field, in which case we franchise tag him and either work out a long term deal, or trade him with his value and situation better.
Im not suggesting that we do do that, but if the front office/coaching staff wants to bet on him or feels underwhelmed by trade offers it could be beneficial assuming he doesnt act like a excrement head again
Post by: Italian Seafood on February 28, 2017, 05:33:27 PM
Good god Seafood even Tommyanne gets the concept.
I get the concept, I just disagree with it. You guys always want to sell low and wonder why we never win. Then again, you still think the Revis trade was the right move despite all the evidence that it was disastrous. But I'm stubborn lol.
Post by: Johnny English on February 28, 2017, 05:34:31 PM
The only thing is we could roll the dice on him and keep him. I mean there are pretty good odds we could get a 3rd round comp pick for him. So if we kept him for a year and walked we could get a 3rd. He could also have a resurgence year and get his excrement together off the field, in which case we franchise tag him and either work out a long term deal, or trade him with his value and situation better.
Im not suggesting that we do do that, but if the front office/coaching staff wants to bet on him or feels underwhelmed by trade offers it could be beneficial assuming he doesnt act like a excrement head again
If he gets arrested and/or suspended again no one is giving him a contract, and we're not getting any compensation for him. I'll take the bird in the hand on this one, especially given that if we keep him for another year we're going to be trying to figure out what to do with him again.
Post by: insanity on February 28, 2017, 05:35:34 PM
The only thing is we could roll the dice on him and keep him. I mean there are pretty good odds we could get a 3rd round comp pick for him. So if we kept him for a year and walked we could get a 3rd. He could also have a resurgence year and get his excrement together off the field, in which case we franchise tag him and either work out a long term deal, or trade him with his value and situation better.
Im not suggesting that we do do that, but if the front office/coaching staff wants to bet on him or feels underwhelmed by trade offers it could be beneficial assuming he doesnt act like a excrement head again
A 3rd round pick in 2019 is equivalent to a 5th round pick in 2017. If he isn't part of your future you trade him now.
Post by: dcm1602 on February 28, 2017, 05:39:06 PM
If he gets arrested and/or suspended again no one is giving him a contract, and we're not getting any compensation for him. I'll take the bird in the hand on this one, especially given that if we keep him for another year we're going to be trying to figure out what to do with him again.
This is true, but even stupid players tend to know when theyre playing for a contract
Post by: Johnny English on February 28, 2017, 05:41:15 PM
This is true, but even stupid players tend to know when theyre playing for a contract
Aldon Smith is laughing at you.
Post by: casman02 on February 28, 2017, 08:01:46 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 28, 2017, 08:10:18 PM
Assuming they cut Gilchrist, Marshall and trade Richardson, the Jets would have about $47 million (10th most) for 8 (assuming 1 pick for Sheldon) draft picks and free agents to fill a few holes and prepare for the future. I would guess we spend some money on a #1 CB and LT and play it relatively cheap at QB
This is my ideal offseason.
Post by: bojanglesman on February 28, 2017, 08:15:24 PM
Assuming they cut Gilchrist, Marshall and trade Richardson, the Jets would have about $47 million (10th most) for 8 (assuming 1 pick for Sheldon) draft picks and free agents to fill a few holes and prepare for the future. I would guess we spend some money on a #1 CB and LT and play it relatively cheap at QBLike I said before, cap space won't be any more of an issue than the Jets let it be. They by no means have the most cash, but they have plenty. Hopefully they stash some for a change.
They have to fill some holes, but hopefully they do it judiciously.
Post by: Johnny English on February 28, 2017, 10:08:16 PM
We have enough holes in the roster. He's not elite but he's decent and he's value at what he's getting paid. I feel like people want to cut everyone who's not on a rookie payscale if they're not producing at elite level.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 28, 2017, 10:21:11 PM
Still not sure why we'd cut Gilchrist.
his knee is shredded and he wasn't very good to begin with
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 28, 2017, 10:41:16 PM
Post by: steves850 on March 01, 2017, 01:39:58 PM
It's about the knee. He already wasn't great prior to the injury. Now he's got a torn patellar tendon. I wouldn't pay $5M for anyone coming off a torn patellar, especially one late in the season. I'm still surprised Jimmy Graham was as good as he was after suffering that injury.
I didn't watch him closely but I think Jimmy took about a 1/3 of the season to get back to a competitive place.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 02, 2017, 10:43:49 AM
If he gets arrested and/or suspended again no one is giving him a contract, and we're not getting any compensation for him. I'll take the bird in the hand on this one, especially given that if we keep him for another year we're going to be trying to figure out what to do with him again.
Depends what the bird in the hand is. Richardson is young and good, money isn't an issue for us this year, so if we don't get a real good return on a trade I'd keep him and take my chances.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 02, 2017, 10:46:47 AM
Depends what the bird in the hand is. Richardson is young and good, money isn't an issue for us this year, so if we don't get a real good return on a trade I'd keep him and take my chances.
Getting rid of him is more about culture change and team fit than money.
He is a piece of a excrement. We have two 3-4 DE on the team that are better than him. We don't need him here to run his mouth when this team loses or when someone else is struggling. We don't need to keep him around until he fucks up off the field again.
Post by: Pope on March 02, 2017, 02:45:29 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on March 02, 2017, 03:29:58 PM
I see Italian Seafood can't see he's monumentally wrong about the Revis Richardson rabbit hole.
Made it more accurate.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 02, 2017, 03:32:59 PM
I see we went down the Revis Richardson rabbit hole again
You hate to see your team keep making the same mistake decade after decade.
That said, they are different situations. Richardson is much more of a judgement call, in my opinion.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 02, 2017, 04:37:09 PM
Made it more accurate.
Is anyone really wrong in this argument? We dont trade Revis to the Bucs, and we still end up exactly where we are right now today, a steaming pile of excrement for a team.
Arguing about this from either side is retarded.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 02, 2017, 04:52:12 PM
Is anyone really wrong in this argument? We dont trade Revis to the Bucs, and we still end up exactly where we are right now today, a steaming pile of excrement for a team.
Arguing about this from either side is retarded.
Four years later, yeah. My only point there is a comparison about trading good players at their low point in value and getting nothing back. Again, Richardson is a different situation than Revis but it's the same principle.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 02, 2017, 05:53:45 PM
Is anyone really wrong in this argument? We dont trade Revis to the Bucs, and we still end up exactly where we are right now today, a steaming pile of excrement for a team./ m
Arguing about this from either side is retarded.
Is anyone really wrong in this argument? We dont trade Revis to the Bucs, and we still end up exactly where we are right now today, a steaming pile of excrement for a team.
Arguing about this from either side is retarded.
freak you you freaking retard.
Post by: Tommy on March 02, 2017, 06:22:30 PM
The only thing is we could roll the dice on him and keep him. I mean there are pretty good odds we could get a 3rd round comp pick for him. So if we kept him for a year and walked we could get a 3rd. He could also have a resurgence year and get his excrement together off the field, in which case we franchise tag him and either work out a long term deal, or trade him with his value and situation better.
Im not suggesting that we do do that, but if the front office/coaching staff wants to bet on him or feels underwhelmed by trade offers it could be beneficial assuming he doesnt act like a excrement head again
Someone already mentioned this but a pick in this year's draft is way more valuable than a comp pick next year. Besides, comp 3rd round picks are not much better than 4th rounders anyway, so you're not really gaining anything but keeping him.
If you had a car you no longer needed that's worth about $25,000 if you sell now, or have it stolen and get $15,000 in insurance money? Same thing.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 02, 2017, 06:32:30 PM
Someone already mentioned this but a pick in this year's draft is way more valuable than a comp pick next year. Besides, comp 3rd round picks are not much better than 4th rounders anyway, so you're not really gaining anything but keeping him.
If you had a car you no longer needed that's worth about $25,000 if you sell now, or have it stolen and get $15,000 in insurance money? Same thing.
Except we're talking about a car that we could sell now for 25,000 or worse get 18 next year or get 50,000 next year if we're really lucky
Post by: Tommy on March 02, 2017, 06:34:53 PM
Except we're talking about a car that we could sell now for 25,000 or worse get 18 next year or get 50,000 next year if we're really lucky
Good businesses don't rely on luck. I'm not gonna let the car just sit in the garage and depreciate in value on the off chance that some idiot decides to overpay for it next year when I can get $25k right now. Especially since it isn't being used.
Post by: dcm1602 on March 02, 2017, 06:40:04 PM
Good businesses don't rely on luck. I'm not gonna let the car just sit in the garage and depreciate in value on the off chance that some idiot decides to overpay for it next year when I can get $25k right now. Especially since it isn't being used.
Richardson would be used though, and being forced to trade him even if it's poor value is bad business.
Obviously if you get a good value you take it (ie a 2nd), but if it's excrement value it's completely reasonable to bet on your investment increasing
Post by: Tommy on March 02, 2017, 08:37:25 PM
Richardson would be used though, and being forced to trade him even if it's poor value is bad business.
Obviously if you get a good value you take it (ie a 2nd), but if it's excrement value it's completely reasonable to bet on your investment increasing
Used for what? We're not going anywhere next season. He'll just be the shiny car in the garage that's depreciating in value. Sell high. Sell high. Sell high.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2017, 09:24:06 PM
I fully expect the Jets to have a rough year next year. It's about improvement and getting experience next year not final record. I'd rather win 3 games and see progress on the field with young player than to win 7 games with an older team.
I know I'm in the minority, but I think Bowles with excel now that the old farts are out and it's all younger guys (and Davis Harris). Sure he'll freak up a challenge and play too conservatively, but I think he's a good coach.
Post by: Johnny English on March 02, 2017, 09:33:15 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2017, 09:33:45 PM
When is the last time the Jets did a full tear it to the ground rebuild?I don't remember. There is no doubt this is one though. I didn't expect it, but I'm kind of happy.
Post by: Tommy on March 02, 2017, 10:13:55 PM
When is the last time the Jets did a full tear it to the ground rebuild?
2017
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 02, 2017, 10:26:08 PM
- Brandon Marshall was extremely inefficient all season. At his best, he's a very good receiver. But last year, he was not.
- Ryan Clady was average, and then he was injured.
- Darrelle Revis was awful last season.
- Marcus Gilchrist was awful almost all season.
- Nick Mangold missed half of the season.
There isn't a single player we got rid of from the roster that we can't get similar or better production from.
There's no reason we can't replace the production from every player listed above. Mangold would be the hardest, but Wesley Johnson is the in-house option best equipped to replace any of the above guys.
We still have a long way to go before we can think of the playoffs, but with a high draft pick and some salary cap room, I'm curious to see where we go this offseason.
Post by: Johnny English on March 02, 2017, 11:27:09 PM
Obviously, we're rebuilding. But most of what we've cut has been dead weight...
- Brandon Marshall was extremely inefficient all season. At his best, he's a very good receiver. But last year, he was not.
- Ryan Clady was average, and then he was injured.
- Darrelle Revis was awful last season.
- Marcus Gilchrist was awful almost all season.
- Nick Mangold missed half of the season.
There isn't a single player we got rid of from the roster that we can't get similar or better production from.
There's no reason we can't replace the production from every player listed above. Mangold would be the hardest, but Wesley Johnson is the in-house option best equipped to replace any of the above guys.
We still have a long way to go before we can think of the playoffs, but with a high draft pick and some salary cap room, I'm curious to see where we go this offseason.
Just FYI, we haven't actually released Gilchrist yet. I don't know if he's still injured.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 03, 2017, 04:54:41 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 03, 2017, 11:31:22 AM
When is the last time the Jets did a full tear it to the ground rebuild?
I would say 2006, not that long. It was similar in letting go of old favorites like Mahwae, Martin and Chrebet retired, we traded John Abraham, Mo and Marvin were done, new coach and GM. That was pretty much a tear it to the ground year, Tannenbaum then started over with the guys who are now the old guys we're parting with--Brick, Mangold, Revis, Harris (eventually), etc.
Maybe 2006 gets missed as a full rebuild looking back because Pennington returned as QB, but he basically had to start over and win his job back after the injuries and the change in regime. It worked out to be some continuity but only because Chad beat out three other guys in an open competition, I think they also restructured his contract in a big way after the injury.
Post by: MBGreen on March 03, 2017, 05:19:40 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 03, 2017, 05:52:40 PM
Duff just went on record saying he would prefer to trade back in the draft.Especially if a QB or 2 goes before 6.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 03, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
Duff just went on record saying he would prefer to trade back in the draft.I don't really care who is on the board - I prefer a trade back. I'm glad Maccagnan agrees. However, it's easier said than done.
Post by: Johnny English on March 03, 2017, 06:06:44 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 03, 2017, 08:10:16 PM
Duff just went on record saying he would prefer to trade back in the draft.
Said every GM ever.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 15, 2017, 04:05:54 PM
Quote
A rebuilding year is fine for the New York Jets but it must be a year that shows progress, so says a team source familiar with the team’s situation following a 5-11 record last year.
With no Darrelle Revis, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brandon Marshall or Nick Mangold it appears that the Jets will undoubtedly be a younger, leaner team in 2017. They are clearly in rebuild mode, something that is evident from the jettisoning of talent from the roster in recent weeks. But the impetus from atop the organization isn’t an instant turn around as there seems to be a prevailing wind of slow, steady change.
A source close to the situation said that general manager Mike Maccagnan and head coach Todd Bowles have been given the green light “to rebuild the team from the ruins” but that it doesn’t mean that the team is expected to tank or on the flip side to make the playoffs in 2017.
“Ownership wants them to be aggressive but smart in free agency. There isn’t a ‘Playoff or bust’ mandate for Todd or Mike,” the source told Metro. The source spoke on the condition of anonymity to Metro but he has knowledge and is part of the discussions surrounding upper management.
“This team has to get younger and better, everyone knows that. It is also known that it takes time to get there. That 2015 season built some false hope that this team was further along then it really was. Then Darrelle has a bad year and gets banged up, Fitz regresses and Mo [Wilkerson] has injuries and really struggles. They have to blow it up earlier than expected.”
The source, involved in player personnel issues, spoke to Metro late last week.
He said that the Jets willingness to be selective and coy during the opening few days of free agency points to a team wanting to set the sites straight “for the long haul and not a quick fix.”
“The team needs to show direction. It doesn’t have to be a winning season or a return to the playoffs,” the source said.
“But there’s no doubt that Macc (Maccagnan) needs a home run draft, something he hasn’t had yet. He needs to show that a future is coming in place. Ownership gets that, understands that a process is in place. He needs to be able to show that a turn-around is on the horizon. Doesn’t have to be playoffs or a winning record but that the team is ready to take another step.”
Post by: Tommy on March 15, 2017, 07:00:00 PM
Post by: ScotlandJet on March 16, 2017, 04:12:09 AM
I feel like that article could've been written in one paragraph. A lot of repeating.
What it also means is that no matter what our record is next year we are sticking with Duff and Bowles which is the only strategy open to us because we didn't jettison the hapless booby coach after the debacle of 2016.
God help anyone on here who starts calling for Bowles head after we start 0-6. My powder is dry!
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2017, 07:23:38 AM
What it also means is that no matter what our record is next year we are sticking with Duff and Bowles which is the only strategy open to us because we didn't jettison the hapless booby coach after the debacle of 2016.
God help anyone on here who starts calling for Bowles head after we start 0-6. My powder is dry!
Bowles needs to win next year, he hasn't received a contract extension yet. I think he's gone if we excrement the bed.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2017, 07:57:23 AM
Bowles needs to win next year, he hasn't received a contract extension yet. I think he's gone if we excrement the bed.
I don't necessarily agree with "needing to win". I think this article is spot on, regardless of the source. The Jets were probably worse as a team than their record reflected last year, believe it or not. I don't think the record matters as much as whether there is evidence of improvement with the team. I mean, if we are talking 1 or 2 wins, then yes, he's probably gone. I can't imagine a way a team could be "improved" and have 1 or 2 wins.
If the Jets end up with 6-8 wins but have some of the younger guys playing well, I think he stays. Also, he could have 6 wins and a disorganized mess and get fired. We have to remember that the lack of a decent QB is going to hold this team back no matter how good the rest of the team plays. Can't blame Bowles too much if we are trying to put wins on the board with a Josh McCown-type QB leading the way.
I think Bowles will have some breathing room this year as long as the team plays hard and shows improvement.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2017, 08:02:22 AM
I don't necessarily agree. I think this article is spot on. The Jets were probably worse as a team than their record reflected last year, believe it or not. I don't think the record matters as much as whether there is evidence of improvement with the team. I mean, if we are talking 1 or 2 wins, then yes, he's probably gone. I can't imagine a way a team could be "improved" and have 1 or 2 wins.
If the Jets end up with 6-8 wins but have some of the younger guys playing well, I think he stays. We have to remember that the lack of a decent QB is going to hold this team back no matter how good the rest of the team plays. Can't blame Bowles too much if we are trying to put wins on the board with a Josh McCown-type QB leading the way.
I think Bowles will have some breathing room this year as long as the team plays hard and shows improvement.
The Jets cut some significant veteran leadership, and Harris could be next. Tough to win games without some reasonable voices in the locker room (obviously, this is conjecture, I'm just going on what I've seen this offseason so far) I dunno, we could be staring down a 1-3 win season in 2017.
The team didn't play or respond well to Bowles last year. Again, just going with what I've seen. I don't expect a lot to change next year from a coaching standpoint. People are going to say "Well, Decker was injured early on and that killed everything"....I don't believe Decker was the lynch pin, and if he was, that's pretty sad. You need to coach up the players that were healthy.
Prediction: Duff fires Bowles in Dec, and he gets to hire his own guy.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2017, 08:28:33 AM
The Jets cut some significant veteran leadership, and Harris could be next. Tough to win games without some reasonable voices in the locker room (obviously, this is conjecture, I'm just going on what I've seen this offseason so far) I dunno, we could be staring down a 1-3 win season in 2017.
The team didn't play or respond well to Bowles last year. Again, just going with what I've seen. I don't expect a lot to change next year from a coaching standpoint. People are going to say "Well, Decker was injured early on and that killed everything"....I don't believe Decker was the lynch pin, and if he was, that's pretty sad. You need to coach up the players that were healthy.
Prediction: Duff fires Bowles in Dec, and he gets to hire his own guy.
Bowles will live or die with his ability to coach up younger players now. My hope is that he excels with younger players more than old crusty vets.
I don't think Harris is going anywhere now that Hightower went back to the Pats. We also have to realize that this team does have veterans, just not the elderly kind anymore. We have a lot of players that have now been in the league for 3-4 years. They can help lead the team. I know we don't think of a guy like Brian Winters as a veteran, but he is. Just because the Jets got a lot younger doesn't mean the entire starting lineup is a rookie. I have no idea who is a locker room leader. I'm not in there.
Post by: Fenwyr on March 16, 2017, 09:13:28 AM
Bowles will live or die with his ability to coach up younger players now. My hope is that he excels with younger players more than old crusty vets.I believe that Arizona, by a good margin, had the youngest defense in the NFL last year. They started out rough, but were pretty damn good by week 16. As young as our D will be, its still older than them. Need to see something there at the very least.
I don't think Harris is going anywhere now that Hightower went back to the Pats. We also have to realize that this team does have veterans, just not the elderly kind anymore. We have a lot of players that have now been in the league for 3-4 years. They can help lead the team. I know we don't think of a guy like Brian Winters as a veteran, but he is. Just because the Jets got a lot younger doesn't mean the entire starting lineup is a rookie. I have no idea who is a locker room leader. I'm not in there.
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Post by: Fenwyr on March 16, 2017, 09:24:09 AM
I feel like that article could've been written in one paragraph. A lot of repeating.@kristiandyer I feel like that article could've been written in one paragraph. A lot of repeating. SAD! #wiretaps
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Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2017, 09:25:50 AM
@kristiandyer Article should've been written in one paragrapph. REPEATING! SAD! #MAGA
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Tweaks
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2017, 10:01:37 AM
Bowles will live or die with his ability to coach up younger players now. My hope is that he excels with younger players more than old crusty vets.
I don't think Harris is going anywhere now that Hightower went back to the Pats. We also have to realize that this team does have veterans, just not the elderly kind anymore. We have a lot of players that have now been in the league for 3-4 years. They can help lead the team. I know we don't think of a guy like Brian Winters as a veteran, but he is. Just because the Jets got a lot younger doesn't mean the entire starting lineup is a rookie. I have no idea who is a locker room leader. I'm not in there.
You could be right.
But until I see Bowles show some value (and the FO gives him a contract extension), I'm going to assume he's on borrowed time.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 16, 2017, 10:55:16 AM
Prediction: Duff fires Bowles in Dec, and he gets to hire his own guy.
They got here together, isn't Bowles Duff's "guy"?
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2017, 12:02:44 PM
They got here together, isn't Bowles Duff's "guy"?
No
Bowles was hired before Duff, and reports directly to Woody.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2017, 12:55:17 PM
NoDuff was hired first.
Bowles was hired before Duff, and reports directly to Woody.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2017, 01:00:18 PM
Duff was hired first.
oh right
it doesn't matter though....Bowles still reports to Woddy. He's Woddy's guy.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 16, 2017, 01:09:07 PM
oh right
it doesn't matter though....Bowles still reports to Woddy. He's Woddy's guy.
Woddy? Put the beer down and put pants on.
Bowles is Duff's coach, it's not an Idzik/Rex situation.
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2017, 01:14:06 PM
Woddy? Put the beer down and put pants on.
Bowles is Duff's coach, it's not an Idzik/Rex situation.
yes Woddy...I guess that reference flew over your head.
Duff didn't select Bowles, he came highly recommended from Wolf & Casserly.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2017, 01:47:32 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 16, 2017, 03:47:58 PM
He was likely just part of the discussion...
I would hope so, they just hired him to be the GM.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2017, 03:53:16 PM
I would hope so, they just hired him to be the GM.
Yeah, but if I recall correctly, Bowles was already a leading candidate before Duff was hired and Bowles was hired before Duff probably got comfy in his office chair.
EDIT. Duff hired Jan 13, 2015. Bowles Jan 14, 2015
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 16, 2017, 04:25:48 PM
But Bowles and Maccagnan both report directly to Woody, and neither to each other.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 16, 2017, 04:28:53 PM
I remember Maccagnan had some input on the Bowles hiring. I think it was along the lines of "Can you work with him?" "Yeah, I think so."
But Bowles and Maccagnan both report directly to Woody, and neither to each other.
Yep. I don't think the structure is a huge deal as long as they work together well. If they can't work together, it won't work no matter what the hierarchy is.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 16, 2017, 05:04:26 PM
Post by: MBGreen on March 16, 2017, 05:44:43 PM
So in other words, as soon as we give up a field goal MB is going to want Bowles fired.if he misuses a timeout...get the axe.
Post by: Badger on March 16, 2017, 06:13:49 PM
if he uses a timeout...get the axe.
FYP for you timeout Nazis
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 17, 2017, 11:29:57 AM
FYP for you timeout Nazis
In fairness, nothing irritates me more than burning senseless timeouts.
The one thing I remember clearly when we went from Kotite to Parcells was Kotite never had any timeouts coming to the end of a close game and Parcells always had 3. By no coincidence, Kotite went 4-28 here and Parcells was 30-20.
Post by: steves850 on March 17, 2017, 11:30:41 AM
In fairness, nothing irritates me more than burning senseless timeouts.
The one thing I remember clearly when we went from Kotite to Parcells was Kotite never had any timeouts coming to the end of a close game and Parcells always had 3. By no coincidence, Kotite went 4-28 here and Parcells was 30-20.
I think there may be more to those records than time management - but I get your point.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 17, 2017, 11:32:15 AM
I think there may be more to those records than time management - but I get your point.
Obviously, but close games in the NFL often come down to the last possession, being able to stop the clock and get the ball back.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 17, 2017, 11:36:56 AM
I remember Maccagnan had some input on the Bowles hiring. I think it was along the lines of "Can you work with him?" "Yeah, I think so."
But Bowles and Maccagnan both report directly to Woody, and neither to each other.
Worst owner/gm/coach hierarchy in sports. This power structure can not and will not succeed
Post by: steves850 on March 17, 2017, 11:50:26 AM
Worst owner/gm/coach hierarchy in sports. This power structure can not and will not succeed
Washington called, they want to discuss this claim with you.
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2017, 11:56:17 AM
In fairness, nothing irritates me more than burning senseless timeouts.In Rex's final years he'd get crucified for using a timeout at any point so I was going off that.
The one thing I remember clearly when we went from Kotite to Parcells was Kotite never had any timeouts coming to the end of a close game and Parcells always had 3. By no coincidence, Kotite went 4-28 here and Parcells was 30-20.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2017, 12:09:43 PM
Worst owner/gm/coach hierarchy in sports. This power structure can not and will not succeed
I know this has been a common thought when it comes to the Jets power structure, except its been done a million times with varied success in the NFL. Michael Kay tried making a similar observation to Bill Polian and Polian said he had a similar situation with Dungy in Indy, and it's a very common setup.
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2017, 12:14:03 PM
I know this has been a common thought when it comes to the Jets power structure, except its been done a million times with varied success in the NFL. Michael Kay tried making a similar observation to Bill Polian and Polian said he had a similar situation with Dungy in Indy, and it's a very common setup.All we need is a once in a generation type QB to overcome all the internal dysfunction.
Post by: sg3 on March 17, 2017, 12:16:57 PM
All we need is a once in a generation type QB to overcome all the internal dysfunction.We have one
#5
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 17, 2017, 12:22:31 PM
In Rex's final years he'd get crucified for using a timeout at any point so I was going off that.
Yeah, that and the challenges were definitely flaws in Rex's coaching. I thought he was good enough to keep and hope he'd figure that out.
But the timeouts make me nuts, or when the QB gets confused and burns one. Like on 1st and 10 early in the 3rd quarter, just take the 5 yards, the timeout is much more important.
Post by: mj2sexay on March 17, 2017, 01:34:24 PM
All we need is a once in a generation type QB to overcome all the internal dysfunction.
I mean a once in a generation QB would mask anything. Unless you think Luck is a once in a generation talent in which case he wasn't enough to mask the internal dysfunction between Pagano and Grigson. I don't think that type of dysfunction exists here, it's just the jury is still out as to whether Mac can evaluate talent and draft. Unfortunately, even if last year was an aberration and Bowles can coach, I doubt he'll get to prove anything here with such a lack of talent.
Polian suggested it was a common setup so again, hard to call it the worst and most dysfunctional hierarchy in sports.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 17, 2017, 01:42:48 PM
I mean a once in a generation QB would mask anything. Unless you think Luck is a once in a generation talent in which case he wasn't enough to mask the internal dysfunction between Pagano and Grigson. I don't think that type of dysfunction exists here, it's just the jury is still out as to whether Mac can evaluate talent and draft. Unfortunately, even if last year was an aberration and Bowles can coach, I doubt he'll get to prove anything here with such a lack of talent.
Polian suggested it was a common setup so again, hard to call it the worst and most dysfunctional hierarchy in sports.
I still think that Woody has committed to seeing this beyond this year unless the Jets go out and embarrass themselves beyond just a losing season. Obviously they would never say anything like that publicly, but I think Bowles has more leeway than most think. Of course he isn't going to survive a 1-15 season or a locker room meltdown, but if the Jets can win a few games and show development, Bowles doesn't need a .500 record to keep his job.
Personally, I'm still on the Bowles train. Obviously it doesn't mean everything, but all the coaches I've ever heard with knowledge of him are effusive about him and I've yet to hear bad words about him from any of his players, current or former. Sure, he could improve the timeout and challenge stuff, and maybe he could be a little more aggressive, but that isn't worth firing a coach over. My only concern is if he turns out to be another great coordinator, yet poor overall head coach.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 17, 2017, 02:20:29 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 17, 2017, 02:27:19 PM
Post by: Badger on March 17, 2017, 04:05:58 PM
Yeah, that and the challenges were definitely flaws in Rex's coaching. I thought he was good enough to keep and hope he'd figure that out.I crunched the numbers myself once and Rex was actually above average when it came to % of challenges won.
But the timeouts make me nuts, or when the QB gets confused and burns one. Like on 1st and 10 early in the 3rd quarter, just take the 5 yards, the timeout is much more important.
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 18, 2017, 09:45:42 AM
I crunched the numbers myself once and Rex was actually above average when it came to % of challenges won.
That's surprising. It seemed like he threw a dumb, emotional challenge flag once a game without getting word from the booth, but I guess not.
Post by: Badger on March 18, 2017, 10:06:08 AM
That's surprising. It seemed like he threw a dumb, emotional challenge flag once a game without getting word from the booth, but I guess not.
He did do that. So imagine what his numbers would have been like if he didn't.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 18, 2017, 11:05:44 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on March 18, 2017, 09:40:48 PM
More often than not coaching challenges come from the guys in the booth. So it really is the staff as a whole that makes or breaks a head coach in the challenge department. Timeouts are more of a direct indicator of a head coaches prowess in the decision making process.
And the QB. Herm's clock management woes went away as soon as Pennington got on the field. Mangini and Sparano also appeared smarter than they were when they had him.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 23, 2017, 09:15:22 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 23, 2017, 09:16:56 AM
So, draft experts, who do you think the Jets will pick?
Malik Hooker/Jamal Adams/Jabrill Peppers
Leonard Fournette
Marshon Lattimore
OJ Howard
Mitch Trubisky
Haason Reddick
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 23, 2017, 09:21:11 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 23, 2017, 09:23:45 AM
You think they might still go for Trubitsky? I haven't heard Reddick slotted to the Jets, is he that good? Who do you think is more likely?
I honestly have no idea what direction Mike Maccagnan will go in. All of his picks have surprised me.
The order that I posted those prospects in is the order of my assumption. I think we'll strongly consider one of the safeties then the running backs. Maybe OJ Howard depending on how the board falls.
And yes, I do think we'll consider Trubisky because he's a solid prospect at the position. I hope we don't go QB, but I will understand that pick. It will just be hard to swallow seeing that we used a second on a QB last season.
With Haason Reddick, I think he's outstanding as a football player. He can play DB, DE, and LB. You have a front seven weapon that makes you faster and can help the team in coverage and rushing the passer. I don't think he's a Top 10 prospect, but I think he could go higher than a lot of people think right now.
Post by: Badger on March 23, 2017, 11:03:34 AM
So, draft experts, who do you think the Jets will pick?Another DE.
Post by: WW85 on March 23, 2017, 02:47:57 PM
So, draft experts, who do you think the Jets will pick?
I will be happy with any of these 3 players:
Jamal Adams
OJ Howard
Leonard Fournette
Jonathan Allen......could be a wildcard if he falls to #6. Mac's BPA mantra could wind up drafting him.
R. Foster......was on my list, but acting like an impatient child at the medicals at the combine has questioned his lack of maturity. He still is an outstanding football player.
I doubt Mac goes QB in Rd 1, unless he has such a man crush on Mitchell and is willing to admit drafting Hack in Rd 2 was a mistake.....he will never admit it.
I know Mac loves Ohio State players, but injury concerns for both Hooker and Lattimore could make him go in another direction. Although Lee had some dings and nicks and he pulled the trigger.
I really like trading down and pick up G. Conley, Reddick (as Heisman mentioned), F. Lamp, or D. Njoku
Post by: bojanglesman on March 23, 2017, 03:35:14 PM
Everyone else has a big risk factor.
-Drafting a TE at 6 risks wasting it on a position that is a bit of a luxury for a team with many needs like the Jets.
-QB: none of them are worth the 6 pick.
-Hooker- inexperience is the risk
-Lattimore- injuries
-Fournette/RB- unless they trade Forte, he won't be playing a lot. Can't have a potentially elite RB drafted high in the first round riding the pine. Can't have Forte or Powell getting 2 carries a game all year either.
Foster actually makes sense if you can get past that excrement from the combine. I don't think it's a huge deal personally.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 23, 2017, 03:50:39 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on March 23, 2017, 03:55:23 PM
^ if we draft Fournette at 6, Forte's old derriere will be on the bench not Fournette
I'd bet he requests a trade in that case or Duff will have already done it. I don't see the point of keeping all 3.
Having Fournette would be exciting to see on a team that hasn't drafted a premier offensive talent in a while. i would hope that JEts fans don't get their hopes up to see him repeat what Zeke Elliott did this year running behind that beast offensive line.
Post by: Derek Smalls on March 23, 2017, 04:06:42 PM
I don't think tight end is a luxury pick anymore, if you know how to use them. You can use a tight end as your best weapon in the passing game if you have a Jordan Reed/Jimmy Graham/Rob Gronkowski type. I'd rather take Howard at 6 than a running back. I still prefer Hooker/Adams, but if both of them are gone, I'm fine with Howard.
Post by: WW85 on March 23, 2017, 04:15:27 PM
Hooker, really risky pick, inexperienced.
I'm telling you guys, I watch OSU all the time here in Columbus, Conley was their most consistent player in the secondary.
Post by: AlioTheFool on March 23, 2017, 04:28:59 PM
I'm on record being firmly against a running back at 6, but if we draft a running back at 6, and then we play Matt Forte over that person, everyone in the organization should be fired immediately. If we get Fournette, he's getting a ton of carries, as well he should.
I don't think tight end is a luxury pick anymore, if you know how to use them. You can use a tight end as your best weapon in the passing game if you have a Jordan Reed/Jimmy Graham/Rob Gronkowski type. I'd rather take Howard at 6 than a running back. I still prefer Hooker/Adams, but if both of them are gone, I'm fine with Howard.
I'm on record as not caring what the pick is as long as it's not defensive line. This team has zero depth and the starters are mostly never at risk of playing the week before the Super Bowl.
I'm with you regarding tight end. I don't understand how it's a luxury pick at this point. This team hasn't had a dual threat TE since...I can't even think of the last one. Practically every position on this team is a position of need. Just take BPA with every pick. If that's a tight end, so be it.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 23, 2017, 04:32:43 PM
I just don't get the love for Lattimore, most overrated player in the Top Ten Talk, injury prone.
the hamstring issue is the only thing bad about him as a prospect
He's the ideal press-man corner
Post by: Fenwyr on March 23, 2017, 05:16:07 PM
I'd bet he requests a trade in that case or Duff will have already done it. I don't see the point of keeping all 3.He's a franchise running back. I would say more Lynch or Bettis than Elliot. I am fine with that, and he might be the safest pick in the top 10.
Having Fournette would be exciting to see on a team that hasn't drafted a premier offensive talent in a while. i would hope that JEts fans don't get their hopes up to see him repeat what Zeke Elliott did this year running behind that beast offensive line.
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Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2017, 02:25:11 AM
Hooker, really risky pick, inexperienced.
I mean he might make some incorrect reads and steps early in his career, but he has some of the best ball skills for that position that I've seen in a long, long time.
His ability to track the football is uncanny. That kid has so much range that you can rock him down and roll him back deep in coverage disguises consistently.
Again, he might make some mistakes but that comes with the position. He's got game changing ability as a coverage player. I don't care if doesn't tackle well right now. He takes the football away from the other team and every defense needs that.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2017, 02:32:29 AM
You can use a tight end as your best weapon in the passing game if you have a Jordan Reed/Jimmy Graham/Rob Gronkowski type.
None of them were first round picks, let alone top ten picks.
This is the deepest tight end class in quite some time. OJ Howard is the best prospect, but when players like Evan Engram, Bucky Hodges, Gerald Everett, and Jordan Leggett will be available outside of the first and potentially even the second round, I just don't know how you can justify that kind of selection.
RB, CB, and TE are position groups that we should pass on at 6 because the value will be there in other rounds. The best value at 6 with hopefully be one of the top safeties.
As of late, I've come around to using that pick on Jabrill Peppers if Malik Hooker and Jamal Adams are gone. I think he gets you more value than a TE or RB with that pick. It's riskier, but you potential there is enormous.
Post by: Libero_2 on March 24, 2017, 06:18:36 AM
None of them were first round picks, let alone top ten picks.
This is the deepest tight end class in quite some time. OJ Howard is the best prospect, but when players like Evan Engram, Bucky Hodges, Gerald Everett, and Jordan Leggett will be available outside of the first and potentially even the second round, I just don't know how you can justify that kind of selection.
RB, CB, and TE are position groups that we should pass on at 6 because the value will be there in other rounds. The best value at 6 with hopefully be one of the top safeties.
As of late, I've come around to using that pick on Jabrill Peppers if Malik Hooker and Jamal Adams are gone. I think he gets you more value than a TE or RB with that pick. It's riskier, but you potential there is enormous.
I guess it comes down to which scenario you like best
O.J. Howard
Obi Melifonwu
Marlon Mack
Marshon Lattimore
Alvin Kamara
Jake Butt
Leonard Fournette / Dalvin Cook
Evan Ingram
Marcus Williams
Jamal Adams
Adoree Jackson
Jordan Leggett
I know which scenario I like best. The last one.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2017, 09:21:28 AM
Malik Hooker/Jamal Adams/Jabrill Peppers
Kevin King
Bucky Hodges
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2017, 10:04:23 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2017, 10:13:48 AM
Bowles is at Michigan's pro day. Presumably watching Butt and Peppers.
Is Jake Butt participating? I think he still may be recovering from the ACL injury.
Taco Charlton, Jabrill Peppers, and Jourdan Lewis are probably the top three prospects coming out of that program.
Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2017, 10:17:05 AM
Is Jake Butt participating? I think he still may be recovering from the ACL injury.
Taco Charlton, Jabrill Peppers, and Jourdan Lewis are probably the top three prospects coming out of that program.
Actually I forgot about that - he only had the surgery a couple of months ago so I doubt he's participating. Could still be doing interviews though. I can imagine teams want to know how his recovery is going and where his head is at.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 24, 2017, 10:18:51 AM
Actually I forgot about that - he only had the surgery a couple of months ago so I doubt he's participating. Could still be doing interviews though. I can imagine teams want to know how his recovery is going and where his head is at.
He told Mike Mayock that he's ahead of schedule and he'll be ready to play by the end of July.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on March 24, 2017, 11:12:56 AM
Post by: Badger on March 24, 2017, 02:28:35 PM
Post by: insanity on March 24, 2017, 02:37:48 PM
[/quote]
Why would you ever think Fournette would ride the pine if the Jets drafted him?
Post by: Fenwyr on March 24, 2017, 02:37:51 PM
As someone who used to be on board with drafting guys like Ebron early, I'm now completely against drafting TEs with a high first round pick. If you do, that guy better have two black holes for hands.Would not touch until the 3rd. But I'm still holding out hope that ASJ can be the best scrap heap pickup in Jets history.
I still won't be pissed if we take one in the 2nd, if we plan on going 2 TE, Decker, Enunwa on a regular basis. Makes me want the beast RB at 6 even more.
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Post by: Fenwyr on March 24, 2017, 02:39:37 PM
-Fournette/RB- unless they trade Forte, he won't be playing a lot. Can't have a potentially elite RB drafted high in the first round riding the pine. Can't have Forte or Powell getting 2 carries a game all year either.I agree. Fournette would be a day 1 starter. Forte should and would be the odd man out.
Why would you ever think Fournette would ride the pine if the Jets drafted him?
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Post by: Johnny English on March 24, 2017, 03:06:38 PM
Would not touch until the 3rd. But I'm still holding out hope that ASJ can be the best scrap heap pickup in Jets history.
I still won't be pissed if we take one in the 2nd, if we plan on going 2 TE, Decker, Enunwa on a regular basis. Makes me want the beast RB at 6 even more.
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ASJ is talented and he certainly looked decent in the small flashes we saw last season, but he is by all accounts something of a rooster and I'm not entirely sure I trust him to keep his nose clean. I'm definitely on board with drafting another one.
TBH, I am not generally an absolute BPA guy when it comes to the draft. My draft preference tends towards BPA in a position of need, but at this stage I don't think we can go wrong with straight BPA - the exception being DL.
Post by: Miamipuck on March 24, 2017, 03:48:10 PM
-Fournette/RB- unless they trade Forte, he won't be playing a lot. Can't have a potentially elite RB drafted high in the first round riding the pine. Can't have Forte or Powell getting 2 carries a game all year either.
Why would you ever think Fournette would ride the pine if the Jets drafted him?
LMAO
Post by: bojanglesman on March 24, 2017, 03:59:39 PM
Why would you ever think Fournette would ride the pine if the Jets drafted him?
I don't unless they for some odd reason decide to keep Forte and Powell also. Forte and Powell aren't going to want to ride the pine to the point of getting a token carry here and there per game. That's why they should trade or cut Forte in that scenario.
How would you handle all 3 being on the team and keep them happy? Pretty tough.
I worded it poorly. Fournette wouldn't be on the bench, but Forte isn't going to sit quietly and get 2 carries a game. He wants to play.
Post by: Fenwyr on March 24, 2017, 06:33:06 PM
ASJ is talented and he certainly looked decent in the small flashes we saw last season, but he is by all accounts something of a rooster and I'm not entirely sure I trust him to keep his nose clean. I'm definitely on board with drafting another one.The best DL available isn't Leonard Williams good, so hopefully not an issue.
TBH, I am not generally an absolute BPA guy when it comes to the draft. My draft preference tends towards BPA in a position of need, but at this stage I don't think we can go wrong with straight BPA - the exception being DL.
I was all in on Hooker if the Jets hate my Clemson guys.
But lets be honest, no DB wins championships. Grab Fournette if he's there and run back to Jersey.
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Post by: MoreCharacters on March 25, 2017, 09:01:56 AM
it's just smart football!
Post by: bojanglesman on May 02, 2017, 01:55:14 PM
Quote
Jets owner Woody Johnson, commenting for the first time since the end of the season, offered his take on the upcoming season: "The way I want to be judged, hopefully from the fans' standpoint, is just watch how we improve during the year." Johnson said the current youth movement is "a direction we've never tried in the 17 years I've been involved with the Jets." Johnson said he wants to get away from trading draft picks and emphasizing free agency, which they had done in the past. "Judge it by the progress," he said. He spoke at the BTI charity event in New York. (Courtesy ESPN New York radio.)
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 02, 2017, 02:19:48 PM
Someone kidnapped Woody Johnson or this is a wonderfully welcome clone:
I have a feeling Casserly sat Woody down before the search began and said "Look, if I find you a team you have to stick it out. No 3-years-or-else mandates."
If there's no progress, sure, everyone's head is on the chopping block. But it's blatantly obvious that this team is in full-on from-the-ground-up rebuild mode and it's going to take time to see it through.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 02, 2017, 04:00:09 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 02, 2017, 04:13:07 PM
It would be foolhardy to expect more than four wins from this team this year. Hopefully that's an implicit admission that he realizes that.
I'm not trying to expect anything. 0 wins, 8 wins, whatever.
Post by: Laxin on May 02, 2017, 05:46:10 PM
The only thing I hope for is improvement with some of the young guys for previous drafts and some level of competency from rookies. We would all love for Hackenberg to play, and play well... but if he doesn't, the next best thing is Suck for Sam.
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 02, 2017, 07:04:22 PM
Post by: Johnny English on May 02, 2017, 07:19:40 PM
i hope we win 0 games next year and draft sam and hopefully he is the real deal,
No freak that. I hope Hackenberg becomes amazing and we win 19 games and Brady dies and they go 0-16 and draft Darnold and he turns out to be another murderer and he kills Kraft's latest teenage girlfriend and the NFL is so embarrassed by the shame that the Patriots have brought upon them that they close down the franchise and vacate every record of theirs from the last twenty years.
Have some freaking positivity man.
Post by: Laxin on May 02, 2017, 07:42:37 PM
Post by: Badger on May 02, 2017, 08:19:11 PM
Yeah. I mean its not likely, but every Jets fan should be hoping Hackenberg is our franchise QB. There's no downside, unless you have a personal problem with him.
http://www.jetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,3601.0.html
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 02, 2017, 08:38:41 PM
No freak that. I hope Hackenberg becomes amazing and we win 19 games and Brady dies and they go 0-16 and draft Darnold and he turns out to be another murderer and he kills Kraft's latest teenage girlfriend and the NFL is so embarrassed by the shame that the Patriots have brought upon them that they close down the franchise and vacate every record of theirs from the last twenty years.
Have some freaking positivity man.
that's cool too but that's usually not how our fortune works. likeliest outcome i see happening for us is that hackenberg may turn out to be decent but not good enough to be the franchise, but his decency wins us enough games to run out out of the darnold sweepstakes and we miss out again on another potential franchise QB
im sorry, im not trying to be so negative about this, these are just thoughts. on the other hand im not going to go into this season super positive either. what i am interested in most is the fact that we have some interesting young players on the team, and no matter the record i would just like to see some nice improvements from them throughout the year, that is all i want.
Post by: Laxin on May 02, 2017, 08:49:00 PM
http://www.jetoffensive.com/index.php/topic,3601.0.html
Thats a fair criticism
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 02, 2017, 08:53:17 PM
Post by: Johnny English on May 02, 2017, 08:54:17 PM
Is the Jets week 1 game in Buffalo a "must-win" game?
According to a significant proportion of this board it's a "must lose" game, along with the other 15.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 02, 2017, 09:34:31 PM
According to a significant proportion of this board it's a "must lose" game, along with the other 15.
Worth it for Derwin James
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 02, 2017, 09:49:35 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2017, 09:51:07 PM
This team hasn't had a franchise quarterback in over 40 years. Like it or not, losing gives us our best chance of finally changing that.
Hack Da Gawd is about to prove everyone wrong
Seriously though, you know how amazing it would be to see Christian Hackenberg turn into a good NFL QB with this team. Just become a game manager that occasionally makes a big play for us. Everyone thinks he'll stink and he probably will, but anything can happen in sports.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 02, 2017, 09:51:36 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 02, 2017, 09:53:33 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2017, 09:55:11 PM
Crazy prediction: we have an absolutely awful season and draft somewhere around 6 next year
We go 1-15 and Sam Darnold stays in school
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 02, 2017, 09:57:42 PM
Seriously though, you know how amazing it would be to see Christian Hackenberg turn into a good NFL QB with this team. Just become a game manager that occasionally makes a big play for us. Everyone thinks he'll stink and he probably will, but anything can happen in sports.
This is something that I'm actually afraid of. That Hackenberg would show enough "flashes" this year that we decide against investing in a potentially elite quarterback in the draft, or even worse, he shows that he can be the game manager that you described, we commit to him as our starting quarterback, and then we're stuck with an Alex Smith or Andy Dalton type that we can never get past the divisional round of the playoffs with.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2017, 10:00:01 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 02, 2017, 10:01:54 PM
If Christian Hackenberg turns into Alex Smith, he'll be one of the best draft picks ever for this team
And no rings to show for it
Post by: Miamipuck on May 02, 2017, 10:06:48 PM
We go 1-15 and Sam Darnold stays in school
Just like Peyton Manning. Although that was because the great and powerful Oz (Parcells) told Manning to freak off when he asked for a guarantee to be the #1 player taken.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 03, 2017, 05:31:06 AM
And no rings to show for it
Which is no different than the past 40 years.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 03, 2017, 05:32:21 AM
We go 1-15 and Sam Darnold stays in school
Even if he stays, which I'd be surprised if he does, there are at least two other guys who might come out that look to be much better options than what this years class offered. If we go 1-15, I'm confident at least one of the three will come out.
Post by: MBGreen on May 03, 2017, 07:36:03 AM
We go 1-15 and Sam Darnold stays in school
this would suck.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 03, 2017, 07:57:40 AM
We go 1-15 and Sam Darnold stays in school
Send him whores and cash until he leaves school.
"Enjoy Lexxxus and Clarissa, courtesy of Joody Wohnson."
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 03, 2017, 08:49:54 AM
Which is no different than the past 40 years.
Which is my point
Post by: Miamipuck on May 03, 2017, 08:51:12 AM
Send him whores and cash until he leaves school.
"Enjoy Lexxxus and Clarissa, courtesy of Joody Wohnson."
Completely unnecessary, you're making it way too complicated:
"Mr. Darnold, we really want you to come out of school and be the New York Jets Franchise QB, here's a bag of Tostito's.
Post by: Pope on May 03, 2017, 09:12:21 AM
Most likely: We start 3 different QBs and struggle to win 4 games against a rough schedule. Top 3 pick and in position to get a top QB
Post by: MexJetinBcn on May 03, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
Ideal scenario: Hackenberg starts and is the real deal, we keep building the team and have a foundation setup for a decade
Most likely: We start 3 different QBs and struggle to win 4 games against a rough schedule. Top 3 pick and in position to get a top QB
Most likely, we go 6-10 and pick 6th. All QBs are gone when we pick. We land a stud defensive lineman.
Post by: Laxin on May 03, 2017, 10:58:44 AM
Ideal scenario: Hackenberg starts and is the real deal, we keep building the team and have a foundation setup for a decade
Most likely: We start 3 different QBs and struggle to win 4 games against a rough schedule. Top 3 pick and in position to get a top QB
The pessimistic Jets fan in me wants to say that the most likely scenario is we start 3 different QBs, but squeeze out a couple late season wins that pushes out of the top 5, and we miss out on Darnold and Allen or whoever the top QBs end up being... I hope this isn't the case tho
Post by: Heismanberg on May 03, 2017, 11:02:02 AM
If he's terrible, we'll end up with a top prospect at QB.
If he's average, we'll be out of position for a top prospect at QB.
If he's good, we'll be set for a long time.
(A lot of ifs)
Post by: bojanglesman on May 03, 2017, 11:17:19 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 03, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
If Hack ends up starting or playing a good bit this year, I hope they are patient with him. He will throw some INTs and have trouble with accuracy early on. But he is a smart QB, and has all the physical tools. He's not a big dummy with a good arm like Geno. Barring a total meltdown, I hope they stick with him through the tough times. If he can stay on the field, it will build his confidence.
The thing with Hackenberg is that he's always done a really good job protecting the football, his accuracy just became absolutely terrible after the scheme change.
He made some nice throws in preseason...but he also had some really bad misses. He'll be inconsistent, especially if the protection is subpar. If this team can run the football and get him in rhythm, he might be OK.
Post by: Tommy on May 03, 2017, 12:52:49 PM
This team hasn't had a franchise quarterback in over 40 years. Like it or not, losing gives us our best chance of finally changing that.
Don't let Badger see this. He doesn't think high picks are worth being shitty, and would rather us go 8-8.
Post by: Fenwyr on May 03, 2017, 02:21:47 PM
Don't let Badger see this. He doesn't think high picks are worth being shitty, and would rather us go 8-8.I want them to win every game they play, regardless of record or the 2018 draft.
I have no issue clearing the bench once we get to 7 losses, but I'll be rooting for them to win too.
And Vinny, Chad, Favre the rental were all franchise QBs until injuries did them in. O'Brien was borderline franchise as well.
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2017, 02:36:59 PM
Don't let Badger see this. He doesn't think high picks are worth being shitty, and would rather us go 8-8.But why?
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 03, 2017, 02:38:06 PM
I want them to win every game they play, regardless of record or the 2018 draft.
I have no issue clearing the bench once we get to 7 losses, but I'll be rooting for them to win too.
And Vinny, Chad, Favre the rental were all franchise QBs until injuries did them in. O'Brien was borderline franchise as well.
Same here. I'm a Jets fan and I want to watch them win games. It didn't help the future of the franchise for Fitzpatrick to set team records a couple of years ago, but I enjoyed the season right down to the last game.
Getting a great pick in the draft is a consolation prize, not a goal.
Post by: WD40 on May 03, 2017, 03:26:52 PM
That said, if tanking one season gets us back to this video, I could MAYBE get on board with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXGCjnoo4po
Post by: Pope on May 03, 2017, 04:20:21 PM
Don't let Badger see this. He doesn't think high picks are worth being shitty, and would rather us go 8-8.Yeah I don't care for his mindset. Last year's excrement show was a lot less painful than the 10-6 year where we missed the playoffs by losing to Buffalo in the season finale.
Some people would rather us go 6-10 or 5-11 rather than 2-14. Frankly if we're not making the playoffs I don't give a excrement how bad we do.
Sent from my SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Post by: Heismanberg on May 03, 2017, 04:21:49 PM
Post by: Tommy on May 03, 2017, 04:22:14 PM
Yeah I don't care for his mindset. Last year's excrement show was a lot less painful than the 10-6 year where we missed the playoffs by losing to Buffalo in the season finale.
Some people would rather us go 6-10 or 5-11 rather than 2-14. Frankly if we're not making the playoffs I don't give a excrement how bad we do.
Sent from my SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Same. I'd rather us go 2-14 and see some development out of the young players than anything. That 10-6 season was fun during the season, but looking back it was way worse than last year.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 03, 2017, 04:23:30 PM
Sam Darnold is the ultimate prize right now but he could stay in school or get injured.
Tanking is a ridiculous thought in professional sports.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 03, 2017, 04:25:48 PM
I don't want to watch the Jets give up and flop at the end of a season.
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 03, 2017, 04:34:26 PM
we all do
you could have mediocre season after mediocre season and hope you get lucky by finding some guy in the draft with a pick outside the top 5-10, or by signing a great QB that hits FA to big money, or you could lose a lot for a year and draft that guy yourself (if everything works out with him)
there's nothing wrong with a bad season of really bad losing when it leads to something that'll give us a lot of wins in the future, with meaningful games deep in the playoffs being played. for any jet fan that just wants to see them win they'd definitely sign up for something like that
i totally want the jets to win, but that doesn't mean i need them to win every single game i ever watch them play, especially in a season where we more or less are going to accomplish jack excrement in terms of getting to the playoffs
like others have mentioned, though, this all is a moot point. we don't even know if the guys in next year's draft will even pan out, or whether they'll even declare. best thing to do is just hope for our own player development
Post by: Pope on May 03, 2017, 05:13:54 PM
Sent from my SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Post by: Laxin on May 03, 2017, 05:17:28 PM
I'm like H-berg, I'd rather see our young players improve and play well, even if that means us winning our way out of a top 5 pick. I'll never pull for my team to lose. I can't do it.
I don't want to watch the Jets give up and flop at the end of a season.
I agree mostly. I can never root for a sports team to lose to start off the season. But I won't lie, if a situation arises like 2014 (Mariota, and that week 16 game vs the Titans) where there's a very good QB coming out, and its December and the Jets are 2-13 or 3-12... I'll probably be okay with them losing out.
But mainly, the focus is young players showing promise as its been said many times.
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2017, 05:53:46 PM
If you give people excrement for being happy that their team won a goddamn game, you need to go freak yourself.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 03, 2017, 05:56:41 PM
If you give people excrement for being happy that their team won a goddamn game, you need to go freak yourself.
I will excrement on Boston fans with every chance that I get.
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2017, 06:20:05 PM
I will excrement on Boston fans with every chance that I get.
I meant fans of your own team, specifically the end of season "meaningless" wins. It's not as bad here as it is on Twitter and /r/nyjets.
e.g. "I hope you're all happy, we just ruined our future by winning this game."
Post by: MBGreen on May 03, 2017, 06:28:13 PM
Post by: Laxin on May 03, 2017, 07:14:52 PM
I meant fans of your own team, specifically the end of season "meaningless" wins. It's not as bad here as it is on Twitter and /r/nyjets.
e.g. "I hope you're all happy, we just ruined our future by winning this game."
This isn't right of people to do, but I don't think its wrong to look back and think "it might have been better for the overall success of this team if we lost that one, and ended up drafting Mariota"... It's 20-20 hindsight, so it doesn't really matter.
Post by: Pope on May 03, 2017, 07:17:52 PM
I'm glad so many of you are able to influence the team's future with your tank hopes, thus guaranteeing us elite players and SB wins.No one is saying that
If you give people excrement for being happy that their team won a goddamn game, you need to go freak yourself.
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Post by: bojanglesman on May 03, 2017, 07:21:45 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on May 03, 2017, 07:45:26 PM
Show me someone ok with losing and I will show you a loser.
Anyway, professional athletes with an ounce of self respect will not tank. Also I have seen teams suck for decades with that tanking mentality. It's freaking retarded. Draft well and coach well and you don' have to freaking tank.
Post by: Badger on May 03, 2017, 08:05:02 PM
No one is saying that
Sent from my SM-G900A using Tapatalk
Clarified in my second post, it's more of a general Jets fan thing, not specific to here.
Post by: Johnny English on May 03, 2017, 11:07:24 PM
this team needs a franchise QB. A big reason why we keep losing is because we're weak at the most important position on the field.
You're absolutely right. If only we'd tanked for Derek Carr or Russell Wilson.
You don't need to be excrement to draft good players. If you're excrement, it's probably not because you were too good to draft the good players. It's because you were excrement at drafting.
Post by: Koz on May 04, 2017, 06:11:42 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/05/04/jets-claim-alex-balducci-off-waivers-from-49ers/
Jets claim Alex Balducci off waivers from 49ers
Posted by Curtis Crabtree on May 4, 2017, 1:28 AM EDT
Getty Images
The New York Jets claimed center Alex Balducci off waivers from the San Francisco 49ers on Wednesday.
Balducci, who played for former 49ers coach Chip Kelly at Oregon, was converted from defensive line to offense in San Francisco. After being released during cuts in September, he was signed to the 49ers practice squad.
He was promoted to the active roster in December and appeared in two games for the 49ers.
The 49ers waived Balducci in a slew of roster moves on Tuesday that corresponded with the additions of center Tim Barnes and guard Brandon Fusco.
Post by: MBGreen on May 04, 2017, 06:44:59 AM
You're absolutely right. If only we'd tanked for Derek Carr or Russell Wilson.stop blaming Rex!
You don't need to be excrement to draft good players. If you're excrement, it's probably not because you were too good to draft the good players. It's because you were excrement at drafting.
Post by: Coach K on May 04, 2017, 07:38:15 AM
this team needs a franchise QB. A big reason why we keep losing is because we're weak at the most important position on the field.
barring a trade up I think Lamar Jackson will be available to us with a top 6 pick. and that would be worst case scenario with
Darnold Allen and Rosen gone.
I know Heismanberg has reservations about him, my only reservation when it comes to him is his damn playing weight. he needs about 15 or 20 lbs on him. Another season like last year though and i bet we have 4 QB's go in the top 10
Or we trade up for one of those 3 guys.
either way, Duff did the right thing and built everything else up with who they had as BPA through the draft. we make a move for a QB next year
Post by: MBGreen on May 04, 2017, 07:47:38 AM
barring a trade up I think Lamar Jackson will be available to us with a top 6 pick. and that would be worst case scenario with
Darnold Allen and Rosen gone.
I know Heismanberg has reservations about him, my only reservation when it comes to him is his damn playing weight. he needs about 15 or 20 lbs on him. Another season like last year though and i bet we have 4 QB's go in the top 10
Or we trade up for one of those 3 guys.
either way, Duff did the right thing and built everything else up with who they had as BPA through the draft. we make a move for a QB next year
this is the hope of many. But the flipside could be that Duff actually believes in Hackenberg.
Post by: Coach K on May 04, 2017, 07:49:05 AM
this is the hope of many. But the flipside could be that Duff actually believes in Hackenberg.
if he gets no playing time this year, then passes on 1 of 4 possible blue chip prospects
he will be freaking dead to me.
Post by: MBGreen on May 04, 2017, 07:51:26 AM
if he gets no playing time this year, then passes on 1 of 4 possible blue chip prospects
he will be freaking dead to me.
Well, if Hack gets no playing time...I'm pretty sure the writing will be on the wall for him. I don't believe Duff is a stupid human. He won't pass on potential franchise QB prospects.
Post by: Miamipuck on May 04, 2017, 08:24:20 AM
Well, if Hack gets no playing time...I'm pretty sure the writing will be on the wall for him. I don't believe Duff is a stupid human. He won't pass on potential franchise QB prospects.
This
Post by: Heismanberg on May 04, 2017, 08:55:21 AM
Post by: MBGreen on May 04, 2017, 09:11:35 AM
McGlinchey 2018
I thought about him during the draft. Picking him would only make sense if Hackenberg turns out to be the real deal.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 04, 2017, 09:16:21 AM
Post by: Coach K on May 04, 2017, 09:23:48 AM
I just want to see young players develop. If we're going to suck, I just want to see some promise.
this, some stupid jet fans were actually complaining about Woody's statement. Probably the most promising thing hes ever said as an Owner
Post by: Coach K on May 04, 2017, 09:24:40 AM
McGlinchey 2018
if hes there and we pick him. i would cry tears of joy.
then again depends on the QB play this year.
he is a true blue chip LT though
Post by: Italian Seafood on May 04, 2017, 12:04:50 PM
You're absolutely right. If only we'd tanked for Derek Carr or Russell Wilson.
You don't need to be excrement to draft good players. If you're excrement, it's probably not because you were too good to draft the good players. It's because you were excrement at drafting.
This is the second smartest thing you've ever said.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 12:47:38 PM
You're absolutely right. If only we'd tanked for Derek Carr or Russell Wilson.
You don't need to be excrement to draft good players. If you're excrement, it's probably not because you were too good to draft the good players. It's because you were excrement at drafting.
While I agree with you in principle, it's a bit disingenuous to cherry pick franchise quarterbacks that were drafted outside the first round when the vast majority have been drafted at or near the top of the draft over the years. My point being that you don't get an Elway, a Manning, or a Luck by excelling (or without giving up a ton of assets, which carries its own risks).
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 12:51:50 PM
Post by: Fenwyr on May 04, 2017, 12:54:21 PM
You're absolutely right. If only we'd tanked for Derek Carr or Russell Wilson.You could add several to this list, including Prescott, and I dunno, Tom Brady.
You don't need to be excrement to draft good players. If you're excrement, it's probably not because you were too good to draft the good players. It's because you were excrement at drafting.
Of all the 1st round franchise QB's that have come out lately, how many rings do they have?
I think Luck could get there, but his team is holding him back.
I think Winston has a shot this year. That offense is loaded now.
I think Rapey was the youngest 1st rounder to win in a very long time. The Manning bros did it too, but it took years.
When you have mid to late round QB's winning most years lately, I am a little less concerned with a top 3 pick.
Post by: Fenwyr on May 04, 2017, 12:59:43 PM
You don't have to root for failure, but you should realize that short-term failure can be (and often is) instrumental in a team's long-term success.I'll start the list with the Browns. The Jets are on that list too, but I don't think I need to spell it out for you to show that you are wrong.
Winning begets winning. Keep bringing in young kids used to winning, and eventually we will find a QB that lead them, or at least not screw it up.
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 04, 2017, 01:02:55 PM
I'm convinced that Super Bowl winning QBs are a combination of talent, desire, scheme-fit, and willingness by the team to build around them and let them grow. Raw talent isn't enough on its own.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 01:04:45 PM
I'll start the list with the Browns. The Jets are on that list too, but I don't think I need to spell it out for you to show that you are wrong.
Winning begets winning. Keep bringing in young kids used to winning, and eventually we will find a QB that lead them, or at least not screw it up.
I fail to see how citing arguably the worst franchise in professional sports invalidates my argument.
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 01:11:18 PM
While I agree with you in principle, it's a bit disingenuous to cherry pick franchise quarterbacks that were drafted outside the first round when the vast majority have been drafted at or near the top of the draft over the years. My point being that you don't get an Elway, a Manning, or a Luck by excelling (or without giving up a ton of assets, which carries its own risks).
Current franchise QBs drafted outside the top ten:
Joe Flacco (18)
Andy Dalton (35)
Dak Prescott (135)
Aaron Rodgers (24)
Tom Brady (199)
Drew Brees (32)
Russell Wilson (75)
Kirk Cousins (102)
Teddy Bridgewater (32)
Derek Carr (36)
Ben Roethlisberger (11)
Tyrod Taylor (180)
Almost / potential franchise QBs drafted outside of top ten (not including players taken in the last two drafts):
Nick Foles (88)
Jimmy Garoppolo (62)
Mike Glennon (73)
AJ McCarron (164)
Math says you don't need to tank to get a franchise QB. You need to draft well.
Post by: Badger on May 04, 2017, 01:52:34 PM
You don't have to root for failure, but you should realize that short-term failure can be (and often is) instrumental in a team's long-term success.What have the Colts done with Luck?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 01:54:36 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 01:58:21 PM
What have the Colts done with Luck?
Three playoff births, two division titles, and one AFC championship game appearance in five seasons and that's with one of the league's worst GMs.
Post by: Badger on May 04, 2017, 02:01:03 PM
I'll start the list with the Browns. The Jets are on that list too, but I don't think I need to spell it out for you to show that you are wrong.x1000
Winning begets winning. Keep bringing in young kids used to winning, and eventually we will find a QB that lead them, or at least not screw it up.
Post by: Badger on May 04, 2017, 02:01:58 PM
Three playoff births, two division titles, and one AFC championship game appearance in five seasons and that's with one of the league's worst GMs.So basically what we did with Sanchez.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:09:50 PM
So basically what we did with Sanchez.
Under very different circumstances, but what's your point? Do you not think that Luck is a franchise quarterback?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:11:21 PM
Obviously you don't have to tank to obtain a franchise quarterback and obviously you need to draft well to be successful.
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:14:07 PM
Suggesting that losing can have benefits is not the same as advocating for a losing culture.
Well, yeah, it pretty much is. Advocating losing for potential but uncertain long term gain is still advocating losing, and bringing a young player into a locker room with a losing culture is a great way to build another loser. This isn't the NBA, all 53 players matter and culture is essential.
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 04, 2017, 02:16:10 PM
Or, you can suck year-after-year, and never get a franchise QB no matter how many times you pick in the top 5 of the draft--Cleveland Browns.
If you draft well you will win. If you draft poorly you'll probably just keep drafting poorly.
Again, a top 5 draft pick is a consolation prize, not a goal.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 04, 2017, 02:21:46 PM
If the QB position improves to average instead of terrible, and the secondary improves to average instead of terrible, that should be a couple wins right there.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:22:02 PM
Well, yeah, it pretty much is. Advocating losing for potential but uncertain long term gain is still advocating losing, and bringing a young player into a locker room with a losing culture is a great way to build another loser. This isn't the NBA, all 53 players matter and culture is essential.
I don't know how I can make myself any clearer. I'm not advocating losing.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:24:53 PM
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:25:57 PM
I don't know how I can make myself any clearer. I'm not advocating losing.
If you say "I don't want to lose, but I don't care if we do" then you're advocating losing.
There is no upside to losing. Ever.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 04, 2017, 02:26:50 PM
If you say "I don't want to lose, but I don't care if we do" then you're advocating losing.There's upside to losing if it's December and we're 1-12.
There is no upside to losing. Ever.
Other than that, no.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:29:26 PM
There is no upside to losing. Ever.
Bullshit
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:29:30 PM
There's upside to losing if it's December and we're 1-12.
Other than that, no.
If you're 1-12 then you're not one player away from competing, and you're already locked into a great draft position, and you're probably there because the people responsible for using those picks have done a excrement job with the previous ones and therefore likely to do an equally excrement job with the next ones. You'd better believe I'm cheering for us to go 4-12 that season.
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:29:57 PM
Bullshit
Spoken like someone who doesn't have a problem with losing.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:30:47 PM
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:31:51 PM
If there's no upside to losing we should just release Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams.
You're going to have to explain that logic to me.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:34:53 PM
You're going to have to explain that logic to me.
I'm being figurative. If there's no upside to losing then what's the value of players drafted at the top of the draft versus the bottom?
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:38:11 PM
I'm being figurative. If there's no upside to losing then what's the value of players drafted at the top of the draft versus the bottom?
I've already explained that. There are lots of elite players drafted way down the first, and in later rounds. The top of the draft doesn't get you better players, it gets you a wider choice. Bad teams still make bad choices up there, and good teams still find quality players further down.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 02:40:46 PM
I've already explained that. There are lots of elite players drafted way down the first, and in later rounds. The top of the draft doesn't get you better players, it gets you a wider choice. Bad teams still make bad choices up there, and good teams still find quality players further down.
Your chances of acquiring an elite talent are higher at the top of the draft. Would you dispute that?
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:45:51 PM
Your chances of acquiring an elite talent are higher at the top of the draft. Would you dispute that?
Yes, completely.
Your opportunity to draft an elite talent is higher at the top of the draft. Your chances of drafting an elite talent at any point in the first round are predicated upon the quality of your GM, coaching staff, scouts and most importantly, the team culture that your shiny new rookie is walking into.
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 04, 2017, 02:48:44 PM
I've already explained that. There are lots of elite players drafted way down the first, and in later rounds. The top of the draft doesn't get you better players, it gets you a wider choice. Bad teams still make bad choices up there, and good teams still find quality players further down.
Exactly. The Seahawks are competitive each year because they continue to bolster their team regardless of draft position. Denver as well.
Let's take Denver as an example. The last time they picked in the top 10 of the draft was 2011 (Von Miller). The time before that? 1991 (Mike Croel). In that time period they've only picked in the top 15 eight times.
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 02:50:23 PM
Exactly. The Seahawks are competitive each year because they continue to bolster their team regardless of draft position. Denver as well.
Let's take Denver as an example. The last time they picked in the top 10 of the draft was 2011 (Von Miller). The time before that? 1991 (Mike Croel). In that time period they've only picked in the top 15 eight times.
How often have New England drafted in the top 15 in the last 20 years, and how many Super Bowls do they have in that time?
Post by: Miamipuck on May 04, 2017, 03:06:31 PM
What have the Colts done with Luck?
Treat him like the Jets treated Sanchez after the first 2 years, take away weapons and try and get him killed.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 03:16:26 PM
How often have New England drafted in the top 15 in the last 20 years, and how many Super Bowls do they have in that time?
They also have Tom Brady... who was drafted in the sixth round bla bla bla bla bla
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 04, 2017, 03:18:02 PM
How often have New England drafted in the top 15 in the last 20 years, and how many Super Bowls do they have in that time?
I would have used the Patriots as my example, but every other time I have I've had to deal with "The Patriots suck at drafting they just have a Hall of Fame QB to mask it."
It's nonsense. They draft players who specifically fit into the role Belichick wants them to play.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 03:19:25 PM
I would have used the Patriots as my example, but every other time I have I've had to deal with "The Patriots suck at drafting they just have a Hall of Fame QB to mask it."
It's nonsense. They draft players who specifically fit into the role Belichick wants them to play.
You're not wrong. They're still an outlier.
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 04, 2017, 03:31:15 PM
You're not wrong. They're still an outlier.
But it works for Seattle and Denver too. Sure, you could argue Seattle has Wilson, but between Elway and now Denver's only had a couple of years of Manning and relative failures. I'd make the argument that Pittsburgh does a pretty good job drafting too. So do the Giants. Sure, they both have very good QBs, but they still field good teams regardless of generally not drafting very high.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 03:33:56 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 03:35:27 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on May 04, 2017, 03:43:40 PM
Seattle has actually been pretty shitty at drafting lately.
The drunk was with them when they had that 4-5 year period where they were lights out. He started drinking again.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 04, 2017, 03:55:29 PM
#SuckForSanchez
Post by: Badger on May 04, 2017, 04:12:34 PM
Under very different circumstances, but what's your point? Do you not think that Luck is a franchise quarterback?I think the Colts are a bad example of "tank and it will fix everything."
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 04:33:50 PM
I think the Colts are a bad example of "tank and it will fix everything."Can you think of a good one?
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 04:37:49 PM
I think the Colts are a bad example of "tank and it will fix everything."
You think they tanked in 2011? You underestimate how bad that team was without Manning. The reason why their team has been bad the last two seasons is a) Luck suffered multiple injuries and b) their awful GM made terrible decisions.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 04:41:18 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 04:43:56 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 04:46:47 PM
Post by: Miamipuck on May 04, 2017, 04:46:54 PM
You think they tanked in 2011? You underestimate how bad that team was without Manning. The reason why their team has been bad the last two seasons is a) Luck suffered multiple injuries and b) their awful GM made terrible decisions.
No according to a certain poster who is never wrong, just ask him, that was better than a playoff caliber team.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 04, 2017, 04:54:39 PM
Post by: Coach K on May 04, 2017, 05:38:39 PM
what ive said is, next year has the potential to be one of the best QB classes in about 30 years. Keyword potential. What I'm saying is so far were looking at 4 or 5 1st rd QB's .
Ideally, Hackenberg pushes enough in camp to get the nod and we can start to formulate an opinion, other than "James Franklin likely ruined him"
i just think it would be foolhardy to not find out wtf is on our own roster this year and then pass on a QB next year. Realistically I see this as a 7 win team barring injuries.
I dont think anyone is saying lets tank for someone whos never played in the NFL. it would be irritating to think we pass on any of the 4 top prospects because theyre better than any prospect weve drafted since Pennington.
now if we dont go QB, i pray to lord McGlinchey is somehow on the board for us.
we draft 6 next year and just make 6 6 6 shirts . photoshop Duff's head on actual Duff's body playing a guitar solo with Williams Adams and McGlinchey on a shirt
Post by: Coach K on May 04, 2017, 05:43:09 PM
i know its matt miller but still lol
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706876-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-way-too-early-predictions
Post by: Laxin on May 04, 2017, 07:26:44 PM
lol
i know its matt miller but still lol
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706876-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-way-too-early-predictions
I really like Barkley... but over Darnold? huh?
Post by: Badger on May 04, 2017, 08:01:13 PM
You think they tanked in 2011?No.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 04, 2017, 08:44:18 PM
Yes, completely.
Your opportunity to draft an elite talent is higher at the top of the draft. Your chances of drafting an elite talent at any point in the first round are predicated upon the quality of your GM, coaching staff, scouts and most importantly, the team culture that your shiny new rookie is walking into.
Yeah, this is a good post that should probably be stickied in the draft thread. 100% factual. Applies to whole draft and not just the 1st round too.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 04, 2017, 08:47:17 PM
lol
i know its matt miller but still lol
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706876-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-way-too-early-predictions
This wasn't an lol. It felt way more like a troll.
Barkley 3rd QB taken? No.
Jets pass over Rosen and Barkley for a RB? Yeah no that's obviously not happening.
Post by: Johnny English on May 04, 2017, 08:50:20 PM
This wasn't an lol. It felt way more like a troll.Jets also passed on Darnold.
Barkley 3rd QB taken? No.
Jets pass over Rosen and Barkley for a RB? Yeah no that's obviously not happening.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 04, 2017, 08:58:22 PM
Jets also passed on Darnold.
God damnit thanks, that's what I meant. Although they should look into drafting Matt Barkley
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 04, 2017, 10:40:27 PM
This wasn't an lol. It felt way more like a troll.I'd be livid, but at the same time, next year's RB class is better than this year's. I think Barkley and Guice are better than anyone who came out this past year.
Barkley 3rd QB taken? No.
Jets pass over Rosen and Barkley for a RB? Yeah no that's obviously not happening.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 06, 2017, 08:21:05 PM
Yes, completely.
Your opportunity to draft an elite talent is higher at the top of the draft. Your chances of drafting an elite talent at any point in the first round are predicated upon the quality of your GM, coaching staff, scouts and most importantly, the team culture that your shiny new rookie is walking into.
Of course those things all matter, but so does where you pick.
There's a reason the draft trade chart looks the way it does. The first couple of picks are extremely valuable because the chances of getting an elite talent are much higher.
Absolutely everything else you mentioned comes into play, and elite talents can be found anywhere. But the draft trade chart looks the way it does for a reason, because everyone realizes the value of an early pick is tremendous. And it's not just because your "opprotunity" is greater.
It's because logic dictates that the NFL highers incredibly talented intelligent people who do this for a living making millions of dollars, and because of that the best prospects will frequently go earlier in the draft.
There's exceptions to every rule and there's no sure thing (not to mention every team doesn't always use logic all the time)
Post by: Badger on May 06, 2017, 08:39:27 PM
the NFL highers incredibly talented intelligent people
Post by: MBGreen on May 06, 2017, 08:42:25 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 06, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
This wasn't an lol. It felt way more like a troll.
Christian Wilkins is the best player in college football, so at least he got that right.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 06, 2017, 10:17:57 PM
I'd be livid, but at the same time, next year's RB class is better than this year's. I think Barkley and Guice are better than anyone who came out this past year.
Yeah, I'm actually glad we passed up a lot of RBs and went with an all-purpose player like Eli McGuire.
Barkley, Guice, Scarborough, Chubb, Freeman, Scott, Michel, and Jones II...big if that they all stay health and enter this draft, but all of these guys can start in the NFL. This group doesn't include a lot of kids that are going to be first time starters for a lot of big programs in 2017.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 07, 2017, 05:07:14 AM
Yeah, I'm actually glad we passed up a lot of RBs and went with an all-purpose player like Eli McGuire.
Barkley, Guice, Scarborough, Chubb, Freeman, Scott, Michel, and Jones II...big if that they all stay health and enter this draft, but all of these guys can start in the NFL. This group doesn't include a lot of kids that are going to be first time starters for a lot of big programs in 2017.
Chubb in the third round would be something else to go with Darnold in the first
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 07, 2017, 04:18:42 PM
Chubb in the third round would be something else to go with Darnold in the first
bro if we drafted darnold we'd all have chubb's in the first round
Post by: SixFeetDeep on August 16, 2017, 09:20:56 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on August 27, 2017, 10:24:45 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on August 27, 2017, 10:34:34 AM
Post by: Johnny English on August 27, 2017, 10:36:29 AM
Just kind of crazy how Mangold and Revis haven't even got a sniff of interest. Neither retired, yet we're 2 weeks from opening day and there hasn't even been a blurb of interest for them
Not much point bringing either in at this point, both are known quantities. Better to let your younger players and scrubs take all the camp reps, then when you get to cut down you can decide whether you can improve your roster by bringing in an older vet like them.
Bear in mind also that we're paying Revis $6M this year so he's probably not desperately scrambling to find a spot to play for a net wage increase of $0.
Post by: AlioTheFool on August 28, 2017, 09:06:52 AM
McCown's going to kneel during the anthem. When asked about it, he'll say "I'm not kneeling in protest, I'm praying for my life."
Post by: Italian Seafood on August 28, 2017, 01:28:35 PM
If Mangold has literally anything left, he's better than anyone the Jets will put at center this year.
I'm guessing he doesn't because his name hasn't come up in visiting anywhere or any speculation.
Post by: bojanglesman on August 28, 2017, 01:30:21 PM
If Mangold has literally anything left, he's better than anyone the Jets will put at center this year.If we would have brought back Mangold, the same fans would be bitching that we haven't given Wesley Johnson a chance and Mangold is falling apart.
McCown's going to kneel during the anthem. When asked about it, he'll say "I'm not kneeling in protest, I'm praying for my life."
I really think Mangold's ankle won't heal enough to let him play. He would most certainly have been signed by now by a contender.
Post by: AlioTheFool on August 28, 2017, 02:20:06 PM
Whoever is QB is going to be brutalized this year.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 03, 2017, 08:32:45 PM
Quincy Enunwa should be re-signed. I hope he doesn't try to go elsewhere to get a bigger role, because Anderson's emergence could impact his usage. ASJ wants to be a Jet, so I think he'll return too.
That's a solid group of targets, even for a potential rookie quarterback.
Chad Hansen made a couple of big catches today and appears to be a decent option as a fourth receiver. ArDarius Stewart has been disappointing so far. I like that Morton is trying to manufacture touches for Stewart each week, but those plays just aren't working right now. I'd like to see him more involved in the passing game down the stretch. I think both of these guys will have to fight for roster spots in 2018.
OL is a huge need for us - the biggest heading into 2018. We can't run the football on anybody. I think running back needs to be upgraded as well, but I'd be comfortable seeing us add a true power option to pair with Powell and McGuire.
Offensive line should be the top priority in the offseason.
Post by: Johnny English on December 03, 2017, 09:00:21 PM
With the way Jermaine Kearse and Robby Anderson have played this season, we actually look much better outside than I thought going into the year.
Quincy Enunwa should be re-signed. I hope he doesn't try to go elsewhere to get a bigger role, because Anderson's emergence could impact his usage. ASJ wants to be a Jet, so I think he'll return too.
That's a solid group of targets, even for a potential rookie quarterback.
Chad Hansen made a couple of big catches today and appears to be a decent option as a fourth receiver. ArDarius Stewart has been disappointing so far. I like that Morton is trying to manufacture touches for Stewart each week, but those plays just aren't working right now. I'd like to see him more involved in the passing game down the stretch. I think both of these guys will have to fight for roster spots in 2018.
OL is a huge need for us - the biggest heading into 2018. We can't run the football on anybody. I think running back needs to be upgraded as well, but I'd be comfortable seeing us add a true power option to pair with Powell and McGuire.
Offensive line should be the top priority in the offseason.
No argument with any of that. I really do think the coaching staff are getting the best out of most of our players, it's just that for some of them their best isn't good enough. Such is sport.
Stewart's an odd one. Pretty much every play he gets on offense seems to be either a fly sweep or a throw to the flats with no screen. They may be trying to get him touches, but I don't feel like they're putting him in a position to succeed. He's pretty decent on special teams though so I think he'll stick around.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 03, 2017, 09:06:02 PM
I’d also like to see Enunwa retained and let him, Kearse, and Anderson fight it out for the their role in the top three spots.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 04, 2017, 05:45:38 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 04, 2017, 07:31:08 AM
Is QB still our first priority in the draft, considering we will pick around 10th?
QB has been a top priority for 30 years.
Post by: sg3 on December 04, 2017, 08:05:42 AM
Is QB still our first priority in the draft, considering we will pick around 10th?Yes
Mayfield
Do it Macc
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2017, 08:12:33 AM
Is QB still our first priority in the draft, considering we will pick around 10th?
Best Player Available
It’s working.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2017, 08:20:47 AM
Best Player Available
It’s working.
It’s difficult to believe that when we’re sitting at 5 and 7.
Post by: Johnny English on December 04, 2017, 08:22:11 AM
Is QB still our first priority in the draft, considering we will pick around 10th?
QB is always the top priority for every team that doesn't have its franchise guy. I think the question you're asking is whether there will be someone there when we pick who we think could be our guy, or whether the value will lie at a different position. To answer that, I don't think Maccagnan will reach - the only time he has done that since taking charge was Hackenberg, and you could make a reasonable argument that a guy who they were in love with and who had/has the tools to be an excellent QB isn't a reach in the second round.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2017, 08:54:51 AM
It’s difficult to believe that when we’re sitting at 5 and 7.
Maccagnan has gone with the best player available approach in the first round since he's been here.
Leonard Williams, Darron Lee, and Jamal Adams are the core of the defense. You can build around these players. That strategy has worked for him and this team.
This team has overachieved in almost every way. We've been competitive in every game except for the blowout in Oakland.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 04, 2017, 10:20:24 AM
With the way Jermaine Kearse and Robby Anderson have played this season, we actually look much better outside than I thought going into the year.
Quincy Enunwa should be re-signed. I hope he doesn't try to go elsewhere to get a bigger role, because Anderson's emergence could impact his usage. ASJ wants to be a Jet, so I think he'll return too.
That's a solid group of targets, even for a potential rookie quarterback.
Chad Hansen made a couple of big catches today and appears to be a decent option as a fourth receiver. ArDarius Stewart has been disappointing so far. I like that Morton is trying to manufacture touches for Stewart each week, but those plays just aren't working right now. I'd like to see him more involved in the passing game down the stretch. I think both of these guys will have to fight for roster spots in 2018.
OL is a huge need for us - the biggest heading into 2018. We can't run the football on anybody. I think running back needs to be upgraded as well, but I'd be comfortable seeing us add a true power option to pair with Powell and McGuire.
Offensive line should be the top priority in the offseason.
If there were a "Like" button, I'd be emphatically pressing it.
I hope Hansen gets some more opportunities this season because he looks like a viable option behind Enunwa, Anderson, and Kearse.
The OL is by far the primary weakness of this team. Invest heavily at tackle and center.
Best Player Available
It’s working.
Agree 100% here too. I didn't used to, but Maccagnan is showing himself to be an excellent talent evaluator (or at least has great people reporting to him). Keep building.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2017, 10:40:58 AM
After the 1st round, he's gotten Brandon Shell, Jordan Jenkins, Marcus Maye and Elijah McGuire. None of the other 14 (other than Lac Edwards) has shown they even deserve a roster spot next year.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2017, 10:47:34 AM
Let's slow down a bit on Maccagnan's drafts. He hit on Leonard Williams, but that was the obvious pick. He hit on Jamal Adams, which is also the obvious pick, but he also passed up Deshaun Watson, who looked like a superstar in limited action. Darron Lee is a lot better, but the jury is still out.
After the 1st round, he's gotten Brandon Shell, Jordan Jenkins, Marcus Maye and Elijah McGuire. None of the other 14 (other than Lac Edwards) has shown they even deserve a roster spot next year.
freak Deshaun Watson
I'd take Jamal Adams over him ten times out of ten.
The jury is not still out of Darron Lee. He's a top ten player at his position this season. It's a complete 180.
The picks were not "obvious" picks. They were the best players available. We already had Wilkerson and Richardson on the roster and Maccagnan still took Williams. It was not an obvious choice or even a need. He took the best player.
Adams was also the BPA. He could have easily taken a corner or a receiver or a quarterback at 6 in either of those drafts.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 04, 2017, 11:14:06 AM
Let's slow down a bit on Maccagnan's drafts. He hit on Leonard Williams, but that was the obvious pick. He hit on Jamal Adams, which is also the obvious pick, but he also passed up Deshaun Watson, who looked like a superstar in limited action. Darron Lee is a lot better, but the jury is still out.
After the 1st round, he's gotten Brandon Shell, Jordan Jenkins, Marcus Maye and Elijah McGuire. None of the other 14 (other than Lac Edwards) has shown they even deserve a roster spot next year.
I'll never understand you. You've lobbied for Geno Smith for years, but
Let's slow down a bit on Maccagnan's drafts. He hit on Leonard Williams, but that was the obvious pick. He hit on Jamal Adams, which is also the obvious pick, but he also passed up Deshaun Watson, who looked like a superstar in limited action. Darron Lee is a lot better, but the jury is still out.
After the 1st round, he's gotten Brandon Shell, Jordan Jenkins, Marcus Maye and Elijah McGuire. None of the other 14 (other than Lac Edwards) has shown they even deserve a roster spot next year.
While not drafted, Maccagnan also deserves credit for finding Robby Anderson. And taking a chance on Seferian-Jenkins. And flipping Sheldon Richardson for Kearse.
Hansen is showing some flashes in limited opportunities. You also can't discount Lachlan Edwards who might be the best punter this team has had in a very long time. I thought he was crazy for dumping Folk for Catanzaro, but that's looking like a good move too.
Maccagnan is doing a pretty good job of rebuilding this team.
Post by: Johnny English on December 04, 2017, 11:27:34 AM
After the 1st round, he's gotten Brandon Shell, Jordan Jenkins, Marcus Maye and Elijah McGuire. None of the other 14 (other than Lac Edwards) has shown they even deserve a roster spot next year.
So what you're saying is that on average, he's producing three starters a year from the draft along with a handful of roster players. That sounds like a pretty solid return, IMO.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 04, 2017, 11:31:22 AM
Maccagnan has gone with the best player available approach in the first round since he's been here.
Leonard Williams, Darron Lee, and Jamal Adams are the core of the defense. You can build around these players. That strategy has worked for him and this team.
This team has overachieved in almost every way. We've been competitive in every game except for the blowout in Oakland.
Who is the core of the offense? Who do we build that around? Enunwa was good and Anderson is getting there but we’ve misfired so many times between Tannenbaum, Idzik and Duff while they focused almost the entirety of the first round between them on defensive players and the second round wiffing on offensive slections (Geno, Hack, Stephen Hill).
Competitive in most games is admirable but this team won’t make it back to the playoffs if it cannot close those games out consistently. Offense has to be a focus at some point or this is the best season we can hope for.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 04, 2017, 12:30:53 PM
Who is the core of the offense? Who do we build that around? Enunwa was good and Anderson is getting there but we’ve misfired so many times between Tannenbaum, Idzik and Duff while they focused almost the entirety of the first round between them on defensive players and the second round wiffing on offensive slections (Geno, Hack, Stephen Hill).
Competitive in most games is admirable but this team won’t make it back to the playoffs if it cannot close those games out consistently. Offense has to be a focus at some point or this is the best season we can hope for.
Powell and McGuire are a nice start. Someone who could blast up the middle would be a welcome addition, but they're not bad off at the position going forward.
Enunwa, Anderson, Kearse, and ASJ are a really good receiving corps. These guys are your core.
Obviously, QB is the big question mark, but when they get the opportunity to pick "the guy" I'm sure they will.
The one thing they need to immediately address in both free agency and the draft is the offensive line. This team needs tackles badly. And center has to be considered a position of need. I don't mind Johnson as a depth player, but they need a better starter.
I don't think this team is as far away as many people think. If they had a better QB, or better OL play, they'd be a serious wildcard contender right now. They are a contender now anyway, but I don't consider them serious.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 04, 2017, 01:59:15 PM
I'll never understand you. You've lobbied for Geno Smith for years, but
All I've ever said about Geno is that he wasn't the worst QB in NFL history, like everyone else on this board seems to think. The last time we saw Geno play, he was playing the best football of his career as a 24-year old with no talent around him. I thought there was an outside chance he would ever turn into a starting QB, but there was a chance. Since then, I've softened a bit as I've talked to some people who played with Geno that weren't exactly glowing about him.
Quote
While not drafted, Maccagnan also deserves credit for finding Robby Anderson. And taking a chance on Seferian-Jenkins. And flipping Sheldon Richardson for Kearse.
Absolutely. I'm not saying Maccagnan is a bad GM. These were all great moves. I'm just saying he hasn't been as awesome a drafter as the post implied.
Quote
Hansen is showing some flashes in limited opportunities. You also can't discount Lachlan Edwards who might be the best punter this team has had in a very long time. I thought he was crazy for dumping Folk for Catanzaro, but that's looking like a good move too.In general, I agree that Maccagnan has done a decent job. I'm just not sold on his drafting as being better than average just yet.
Maccagnan is doing a pretty good job of rebuilding this team.
The 2015 draft has produced 1 player that has been a contributor (I'm not counting Mauldin), and that player was chosen 6th overall. Also, I'm happy with Williams, but you can make a case Vic Beasley would have been a better pick.
The 2016 draft has produced Darron Lee, Jordan Jenkins, Brandon Shell and Lac Edwards. It looks like a good draft, but the 2nd-round pick is a complete whiff. There's no way in hell Darron Lee is a top-10 LB this season. He had a couple good weeks in a row, and I'm pleased with his development, but slow down.
The 2017 draft is way too early to tell since they're rookies. Adams and Maye look like long-term plus starters. McGuire showed some flashes. Hansen and Stewart have done nothing, though again, it's too early to write them off in year 1. And like I said, I love Jamal Adams, but Deshaun Watson looked like a star in limited time, and so does Marshon Lattimore.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 04, 2017, 11:41:44 PM
Who is the core of the offense? Who do we build that around? Enunwa was good and Anderson is getting there but we’ve misfired so many times between Tannenbaum, Idzik and Duff while they focused almost the entirety of the first round between them on defensive players and the second round wiffing on offensive slections (Geno, Hack, Stephen Hill).
Surprisingly, we have a solid group of skill players.
Jermaine Kearse - steady, proven chain mover
Robby Anderson - big play threat
Quincy Enunwa - do-it-all slot
Austin Seferian-Jenkins - redzone weapon that also helps as a blocker
Bilal Powell - checkdown
---
Add another wave of free agency and another draft class to that and we might be in business.
The addition of Kearse and ASJ along with the emergence of Anderson should allow the front office to focus on offensive line and the running game.
It's a good group for a quarterback - rookie or veteran.
Quote
Competitive in most games is admirable but this team won’t make it back to the playoffs if it cannot close those games out consistently. Offense has to be a focus at some point or this is the best season we can hope for.
The fact that we're competitive with such a weak looking and young roster just says a lot about where this team is going and what they can become.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 05, 2017, 08:49:37 AM
OK, you can sleep on him.
Post by: Ornstein on December 05, 2017, 02:00:10 PM
Don't sleep on Devin Smith.
OK, you can sleep on him.
I like to just pretend we drafted Robby in his spot and he was just red shirted his rookie year.
Post by: sg3 on December 05, 2017, 02:50:28 PM
Besides, there are about 6 QBs better than Watson available in the first 2 rounds next April
Post by: insanity on December 05, 2017, 02:52:11 PM
freak Deshaun Watson
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/l0fb.gif)
Post by: bojanglesman on December 17, 2017, 05:09:56 PM
Davis
ASJ
Claiborne
Catanzaro
Trailer Trash Tomlinson
Lawrence Thomas
Kony Ealy if reasonable
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 17, 2017, 05:16:31 PM
Players the Jets should try to re-sign:Claiborne's taken a step back in the last few weeks, and he's still an injury waiting to happen. I wouldn't mind giving him the LaRon Landry treatment - enjoy one great year of his, then let him walk for a huge contract.
Davis
ASJ
Claiborne
Catanzaro
Post by: Ornstein on December 17, 2017, 05:36:44 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on December 17, 2017, 07:04:12 PM
Claiborne's taken a step back in the last few weeks, and he's still an injury waiting to happen. I wouldn't mind giving him the LaRon Landry treatment - enjoy one great year of his, then let him walk for a huge contract.
I would just sign him to another one year deal. This team desperately needs corners and he can play.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 17, 2017, 07:30:01 PM
Isn't Enunwa a RFA this off season? If so I think you can add him to the list as well.
He is indeed
Post by: Johnny English on December 17, 2017, 07:42:44 PM
Claiborne's taken a step back in the last few weeks, and he's still an injury waiting to happen. I wouldn't mind giving him the LaRon Landry treatment - enjoy one great year of his, then let him walk for a huge contract.
You think someone's giving him a huge contract? He's been decent but I don't think anyone's backing up the Brinks truck for him off the back of it. I'd be good with giving him a long term contract as long as we can get out from underneath it if need be, because he's a talented player at a position where we're desperately short.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 17, 2017, 09:34:02 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 19, 2017, 09:38:13 AM
Most likely outcome is that the Seahawks miss the playoffs and give us a pick somewhere in the mid-late teens.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 19, 2017, 09:58:49 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2017, 10:03:21 AM
That will be a nice place to choose a running back
#ChubbTrain2018
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2017, 09:02:56 AM
Here is the draft order as is currently.
1. Browns (0-14)
2. Giants (2-12)
3. Colts (3-11)
4. 49ers (4-10)
5. Browns (via Texans) (4-10)
6. Buccaneers (4-10)
7. Bears (4-10)
8. Bengals (5-9)
9. Broncos (5-9)
10. Jets (5-9)
Obviously we don't know whether Darnold and Rosen will leave college or not. Looking at the top, I'm quite sure if the Browns have a clear shot at Rosen or Darnold, they can't say no at #1.
I think the safe bet would be that the Giants would take the other one, but I'm not 100% sold they will. It would be awful tempting for them to take an offer from another team to move up for a truckload of picks. Eli Manning is getting older, but it's not like they have no one at QB. Eli doesn't have a significant injury history, so I don't see any reason he couldn't play a few more years at a pretty decent level if they felt like beefing the rest of the team up first. He'll look a lot better once Beckham comes back. Then again, new coach/GM might mean new QB.
After that, it gets interesting because there really isn't a team that needs a QB until you get to the #8 spot with the Bengals. They will have a new coach and all the reason in the world to move on from the Red Rifle.
If the Giants somehow manage to win their way back to the number 3 spot, there will be a trade-a-thon for that #2 pick with the Colts.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2017, 09:26:17 AM
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2017, 09:30:01 AM
If the Giants somehow manage to win their way back to the number 3 spot, there will be a trade-a-thon for that #2 pick with the Colts.
They've got Arizona on the road and Washington at home to finish the season. Both of those are very winnable games.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2017, 09:33:09 AM
Andrew Luck might be done. Colts are in a tough spot.
Might be done, or might be done in Indy. I know a Colts fan and he got very angry with me for suggesting that Luck seems to be pretty unhappy with what has gone on there, but the continued failure to build around him must be frustrating.
Not sure what his trade value is with the injury not having been battle tested.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2017, 09:37:16 AM
Might be done, or might be done in Indy. I know a Colts fan and he got very angry with me for suggesting that Luck seems to be pretty unhappy with what has gone on there, but the continued failure to build around him must be frustrating.
Not sure what his trade value is with the injury not having been battle tested.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with his shoulder.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 20, 2017, 09:39:58 AM
Andrew Luck might be done. Colts are in a tough spot.
Brissett is only 24 and was acquired on the eve of the season, I don't think he's looked terrible. It's hard to win on a team thats so horribly deficient in talent everywhere else under those circumstances. Especially once Hooker went down, I'm not sure there's one position group you look at and say, "well at least they have _______." It's all poo.
At the very least, by the draft the Colts will have the benefit of knowing whether Luck has had the additional surgery or not. If he has, that opens up pandoras box if they're also lucky enough that the Giants win, they lose out and both Darnold and Rosen declare.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 20, 2017, 09:45:50 AM
Might be done, or might be done in Indy.
Might be done playing football.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 20, 2017, 09:47:25 AM
Might be done playing football.
He could get some sort of shoulder rod/mesh installed with a suspension system to play for another 10 years.
/JE
Post by: Miamipuck on December 20, 2017, 01:06:53 PM
Just spitballing since it's slow at work.
Here is the draft order as is currently.
1. Browns (0-14)
2. Giants (2-12)
3. Colts (3-11)
4. 49ers (4-10)
5. Browns (via Texans) (4-10)
6. Buccaneers (4-10)
7. Bears (4-10)
8. Bengals (5-9)
9. Broncos (5-9)
10. Jets (5-9)
Obviously we don't know whether Darnold and Rosen will leave college or not. Looking at the top, I'm quite sure if the Browns have a clear shot at Rosen or Darnold, they can't say no at #1.
I think the safe bet would be that the Giants would take the other one, but I'm not 100% sold they will. It would be awful tempting for them to take an offer from another team to move up for a truckload of picks. Eli Manning is getting older, but it's not like they have no one at QB. Eli doesn't have a significant injury history, so I don't see any reason he couldn't play a few more years at a pretty decent level if they felt like beefing the rest of the team up first. He'll look a lot better once Beckham comes back. Then again, new coach/GM might mean new QB.
After that, it gets interesting because there really isn't a team that needs a QB until you get to the #8 spot with the Bengals. They will have a new coach and all the reason in the world to move on from the Red Rifle.
If the Giants somehow manage to win their way back to the number 3 spot, there will be a trade-a-thon for that #2 pick with the Colts.
It would be nice if the 7 teams win out and the Jets move up to #3 as I don't see the Jets winning with that garbage they call Petty under center.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2017, 01:18:52 PM
It would be nice if the 7 teams win out and the Jets move up to #3 as I don't see the Jets winning with that garbage they call Petty under center.
We can't, best we can do is finish 4th. Colts and Texans play each other so the only way to get the Colts to 5 wins is for them to beat the Texans, which would mean that we'd be on the same number of wins as both teams but they'd both be ahead of us by virtue of having worse conference records. Best outcome for us would be for the Texans to win that game meaning that we'd finish with the 4th pick behind the Colts.
I can't believe I spent the time figuring out those permutations given it would also require all of those shitty teams currently picking ahead of us to beat teams in and around the playoffs.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 20, 2017, 01:23:16 PM
We can't, best we can do is finish 4th. Colts and Texans play each other so the only way to get the Colts to 5 wins is for them to beat the Texans, which would mean that we'd be on the same number of wins as both teams but they'd both be ahead of us by virtue of having worse conference records. Best outcome for us would be for the Texans to win that game meaning that we'd finish with the 4th pick behind the Colts.
I can't believe I spent the time figuring out those permutations given it would also require all of those shitty teams currently picking ahead of us to beat teams in and around the playoffs.
Thanks, I didn't really figure that would actually happen regardless.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2017, 01:25:28 PM
Thanks, I didn't really figure that would actually happen regardless.
Also we're going to finish on 6 wins because freak the Patriots.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2017, 01:32:47 PM
Also we're going to finish on 6 wins because freak the Patriots.
Did Tom Brady die?
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2017, 01:34:49 PM
Did Tom Brady die?
Exactly 11 days from now he will be writhing on the turf as they read him his last rites. 2:34pm. Book it.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2017, 01:42:43 PM
Did Tom Brady die?
We have beaten them once in each of the last two odd-numbered years. So there's that.
Post by: Fenwyr on December 20, 2017, 01:44:09 PM
Exactly 11 days from now he will be writhing on the turf as they read him his last rites. 2:34pm. Book it.Only if he shits himself, watch will I.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 20, 2017, 02:56:27 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2017, 02:57:43 PM
I wouldn’t count the Broncos out from taking a QB either.
time to bring on the Ditka.
mount up.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 20, 2017, 03:01:26 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2017, 03:03:53 PM
Which QB are we doing the Ditka for, anyway? Aren't there like 5 of them?
probably the worst one of the bunch. It's how we do things.
Post by: Johnny English on December 20, 2017, 03:04:46 PM
probably the worst one of the bunch. It's how we do things.
We're trading our entire draft to the Ottawa RedBlacks for Trevor Harris.
Post by: MBGreen on December 20, 2017, 03:05:35 PM
We're trading our entire draft to the Ottawa RedBlacks for Trevor Harris.
SBTG
Post by: Badger on December 21, 2017, 09:29:02 PM
Which QB are we doing the Ditka for, anyway? Aren't there like 5 of them?All of them. We're trading our entire 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 drafts so we can take Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Allen.
Josh McCown will still win the starting job.
Post by: Johnny English on December 21, 2017, 10:25:23 PM
All of them. We're trading our entire 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 drafts so we can take Darnold, Rosen, Mayfield, and Allen.And Lamar Jackson will end up being the elite QB of the 2018 draft.
Josh McCown will still win the starting job.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 21, 2017, 11:50:13 PM
And Lamar Jackson will end up being the elite QB of the 2018 draft.
That's because the Jets are the worst QB drafting team in the NFL.
Post by: sg3 on December 22, 2017, 05:03:32 AM
Exactly 11 days from now he will be writhing on the turf as they read him his last rites. 2:34pm. Book it.Lord hear my Christmas prayer
Post by: Badger on December 29, 2017, 12:34:25 PM
That's because the Jets are the worst QB drafting team in the NFL.It's science, we're just knuckle dragging assholes unlike the Colts who were brilliant enough to be the worst team in the NFL the year before a generational talent came into the league.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 29, 2017, 03:08:55 PM
It's science, we're just knuckle dragging assholes unlike the Colts who were briliiant enough to be the worst team in the NFL the year before a generational talent came into the league.
Mythbusters confirmed this.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2018, 11:52:14 AM
Quote
Don’t think #Jets followers realize how much money team will have come start of free agency.
In 2016, #Giants signed Damon Harrison (5-$46m), Olivier Vernon (5-$86m) and Janoris Jenkins (5-$62m) in free agency. They had ~$60m in cap space.
The #Jets will have near/over $100m
- The Immortal Connor J Hughes
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 12:02:08 PM
- The Immortal Connor J Hughes
I think we're fully aware how much money the team will have. The concern is a) how much other teams have, b) how many teams with similar money to us have the same needs, and c) how many of our needs can realistically be filled in free agency.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2018, 12:05:12 PM
I think we're fully aware how much money the team will have. The concern is a) how much other teams have, b) how many teams with similar money to us have the same needs, and c) how many of our needs can realistically be filled in free agency.
“If you cut the #Jets predicted salary cap space in half ($50m), they’d still have more space than all but nine teams.”
- Connor Huge
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2018, 12:07:36 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 12:22:12 PM
They have way more cap space than they need. Cousins would take a big chunk of it, but I don’t see them landing more than 2 premier free agents, if that. Hopefully some of this money can be used in an extension for someone like Williams or sign Robbie Anderson to a team friendly deal.
FA looks really quite excrement for us. Cousins is an obvious want, and there are some really good options at corner. We can maybe add a piece to the DL and there are some OK linebackers although no one who jumps out as being a gamechanger. I don't see anything for the OL beyond a center and I don't see anything really exciting me at WR or RB short of Le'Veon Bell, which is clearly not happening.
If we could do the following with FA I'd be over the moon:
- Cousins QB
- Richburg C
- Poe DT
- Robey-Coleman CB
- Ansah DE
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2018, 12:33:24 PM
FA looks really quite excrement for us. Cousins is an obvious want, and there are some really good options at corner. We can maybe add a piece to the DL and there are some OK linebackers although no one who jumps out as being a gamechanger. I don't see anything for the OL beyond a center and I don't see anything really exciting me at WR or RB short of Le'Veon Bell, which is clearly not happening.
If we could do the following with FA I'd be over the moon:
- Cousins QB
- Richburg C
- Poe DT
- Robey-Coleman CB
- Ansah DE
I would be cool with that.
Cousins is in his own category by himself.
After that, we need to target a top (interior) OL, CB, OLB. This isn’t the greatest FA, but there’s def a couple players at positions of need that can help us. The question will be how attractive of a landing spot this will be for FAs.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2018, 12:36:46 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 12:48:19 PM
I would be cool with that.
Cousins is in his own category by himself.
After that, we need to target a top (interior) OL, CB, OLB. This isn’t the greatest FA, but there’s def a couple players at positions of need that can help us. The question will be how attractive of a landing spot this will be for FAs.
With needing bookend tackles as well as a center, I wouldn't touch the guards. Winters and Carpenter are both above average and I'd like at least a bit of continuity in the unit.
I wonder whether defensive upgrades look beyond the traditional 3-4 OLB. There seem to be some good 4-3 ends on the market which could potentially bring an immediate upgrade to our pass rush, but I don't know how easy it would be for us to adapt to that as a base defense.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 16, 2018, 01:03:50 PM
Cousins
Bell
Sheldon Richardson (replacing the dumped Wilkerson)
Then got a corner and someone to play OLB. Assume they also bring back ASJ, Davis, and Claiborne.
Even if that takes up the majority of the cap room, they could then address center and left tackle in the draft, even if they had to move up like the Ferguson/Mangold year again.
This team could be completely different next year and a legitimate contender.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2018, 01:37:28 PM
I'm not going to get into what each guy would get. I have no idea how they'd structure any deals, but let's say through free agency they acquired:
Cousins
Bell
Sheldon Richardson (replacing the dumped Wilkerson)
Then got a corner and someone to play OLB. Assume they also bring back ASJ, Davis, and Claiborne.
Even if that takes up the majority of the cap room, they could then address center and left tackle in the draft, even if they had to move up like the Ferguson/Mangold year again.
This team could be completely different next year and a legitimate contender.
I'm about 101% sure Richardson won't be back here.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 16, 2018, 01:56:24 PM
I'm about 101% sure Richardson won't be back here.
I don't know if he will or won't. Maybe they get someone for less money to do the same job. The point is that the money they have available to spend this year could completely change the makeup of the team and set them up to draft some key pieces that would allow them to compete in the very near future instead of a couple of years from now.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 16, 2018, 02:07:25 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2018, 02:16:09 PM
We don't have to use all our cap space if the players available aren't worth it. Being bad AND capped out is worse than where we are right now.
They still need to use a good chunk of it because they have to spend 89% of the cap over a 4 year period or the underspent amount goes away to the NFLPA. I don't know all the exact details, but they can't chronically underspend like they did this year.
But to your point, no need to blow it on turds.
I think it would be wise to use some of it to extend Leonard Williams early.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 16, 2018, 02:23:44 PM
They still need to use a good chunk of it because they have to spend 89% of the cap over a 4 year period or the underspent amount goes away to the NFLPA. I don't know all the exact details, but they can't chronically underspend like they did this year.
But to your point, no need to blow it on turds.
I think it would be wise to use some of it to extend Leonard Williams early.
This is what I'm saying, not don't spend it but we don't have to use every last dime just because it's there. There's going to be an off season next year, my guess is we'll still have holes to fill. We don't need to overpay a bunch of stiffs because we have the space.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 02:37:39 PM
They still need to use a good chunk of it because they have to spend 89% of the cap over a 4 year period or the underspent amount goes away to the NFLPA. I don't know all the exact details, but they can't chronically underspend like they did this year.
The good thing about having this money is we can also spend it on our own guys.
Leonard Williams will deserve a big deal soon. We need to hold on to Demario Davis, Austin Seferian-Jenkins, and Morris Claiborne. Robby Anderson probably deserves a non-UDFA deal eventually too.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 02:38:15 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 02:42:05 PM
Just go get Kirk Cousins and spend the rest rebuilding a line that will protect him.
You've been quiet on OL in FA. You see anyone worth spending money on?
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 02:47:56 PM
You've been quiet on OL in FA. You see anyone worth spending money on?
Andrew Norwell
Ryan Jensen
Chris Hubbard
Zach Fulton
Justin Pugh
Josh Kline
Cameron Fleming
There's a few others like (your boi) Weston Richburg, Jack Mewhort, and Nate Solder that have major injury concerns.
It's not a very strong group, but we can definitely find an upgrade at center in this group. Justin Pugh should be one of our top targets.
Post by: MBGreen on January 16, 2018, 02:55:05 PM
Andrew Norwell
Ryan Jensen
Chris Hubbard
Zach Fulton
Justin Pugh
Josh Kline
Cameron Fleming
There's a few others like (your boi) Weston Richburg, Jack Mewhort, and Nate Solder that have major injury concerns.
It's not a very strong group, but we can definitely find an upgrade at center in this group. Justin Pugh should be one of our top targets.
I'd like to see God smile down on us for once and have Billy Price fall into our laps at the top of the 2nd round.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 16, 2018, 02:59:20 PM
Just go get Kirk Cousins and spend the rest rebuilding a line that will protect him.
Is that better than any of the QBs we could get at #6? Seems like this was supposed to be the year for QBs and we have a rather high pick, I figured we'd be in play for one. Asking, not arguing, most of the college QBs I've never seen play.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2018, 03:01:57 PM
I think the Jets should try to find a center in free agency and a backup tackle not named Qvale or Ijalana. Re-sign Dozier as a backup guard- we know him and he improved. No one else is going to pay him.
Use the draft to get a tackle prospect. Maybe a gord late.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 03:03:24 PM
I'd like to see God smile down on us for once and have Billy Price fall into our laps at the top of the 2nd round.
If we get Cousins, I'd like to see us either take a tackle like Orlando Brown at 6.
Billy Price is so good that I wouldn't be mad if we traded back into the first for him if he slides to 25-32 range.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 03:06:25 PM
Is that better than any of the QBs we could get at #6?
It's a great quarterback class if you have one of the top two picks. Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen are the prize pieces of this offensive draft class.
The group is absolutely loaded on paper. The next three are Baker Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Allen. Huge risks. I don't know if Maccagnan and Bowles want to gamble again like that.
You know what you're getting with Kirk Cousins.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 03:27:18 PM
Andrew Norwell
Ryan Jensen
Chris Hubbard
Zach Fulton
Justin Pugh
Josh Kline
Cameron Fleming
There's a few others like (your boi) Weston Richburg, Jack Mewhort, and Nate Solder that have major injury concerns.
It's not a very strong group, but we can definitely find an upgrade at center in this group. Justin Pugh should be one of our top targets.
Why would you go after guards? You thinking of switching Pugh back to the outside, or do you think he's that much of an upgrade over Winters?
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 16, 2018, 03:35:05 PM
If we get Cousins, I'd like to see us either take a tackle like Orlando Brown at 6.
Billy Price is so good that I wouldn't be mad if we traded back into the first for him if he slides to 25-32 range.
This is exactly what I was talking about earlier today. Bring back ASJ, Davis, and Claiborne. Sign another corner. Get someone to rush the passer (and I also said to bring back Sheldon in Wilkerson's spot, but whatever either way with him).
Add Cousins and another offensive playmaker (like Bell, who I'm only talking about thanks to that tweet). Then in the draft, take a left tackle with the 6, and trade back into the first for a center.
On paper, that's a completely different team.
Post by: Fenwyr on January 16, 2018, 03:42:25 PM
If the blue steel FA boner happens, and we get Cousins and Bell, every other asset we have should go towards the OL. I don't want Cousins running for his life, and Bell's running style requires a very good OL.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 03:48:39 PM
Why would you go after guards? You thinking of switching Pugh back to the outside, or do you think he's that much of an upgrade over Winters?
Our entire offensive line is garbage. He's an upgrade over either of our guards. I get that Winters was playing through injury this season, but both guards were terrible run blockers.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 03:51:28 PM
Our entire offensive line is garbage. He's an upgrade over either of our guards. I get that Winters was playing through injury this season, but both guards were terrible run blockers.
I think that's harsh. Both were surrounded by excrement, I'm not sure what they can do on their own. The season before with Mangold anchoring the line, both were very good. I'd want to upgrade around them first.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2018, 03:52:57 PM
Post by: Fenwyr on January 16, 2018, 04:34:03 PM
Bell will get tagged. Then he will threaten retiring, holding out, etc. Then he will eventually show back up and take his paycheck. The Steelers won't budge. The only way he isn't a Steeler is if they decide to tag and trade him to someone who will overpay him.I'd happily give a 2nd this year, or maybe next years 1st for him, and pay the guy. He appears to be a Jets fan. Maybe he would take an expensive but reasonable deal.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2018, 04:36:19 PM
I'd happily give a 2nd this, or maybe next years 1st for him, and pay the guy. He appears to be a Jets fan. Maybe he would take an expensive but reasonable deal.
No way. He's really good, but I'd rather use the draft at that position this year. You don't keep yourself in a good position as a team by paying a running back $15 million per year. The problem isn't giving up a 2nd round pick, it's what you'd have to pay him.
Post by: Fenwyr on January 16, 2018, 04:41:13 PM
No way. He's really good, but I'd rather use the draft at that position this year. You don't keep yourself in a good position as a team by paying a running back $15 million per year. The problem isn't giving up a 2nd round pick, it's what you'd have to pay him.You're getting what would be the best offensive player on our roster, by far. If he was one dimensional I would agree, but he is a legitimate 3 down back.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 16, 2018, 04:45:00 PM
Andrew Norwell
Ryan Jensen
Chris Hubbard
Zach Fulton
Justin Pugh
Josh Kline
Cameron Fleming
There's a few others like (your boi) Weston Richburg, Jack Mewhort, and Nate Solder that have major injury concerns.
It's not a very strong group, but we can definitely find an upgrade at center in this group. Justin Pugh should be one of our top targets.
Why the freak would you want a no talent poopchute like Chris Hubbard?
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2018, 04:45:48 PM
Why the freak would you want a no talent poopchute like Chris Hubbard?
JACKASS. ILL KILL YOU.
Post by: Ornstein on January 16, 2018, 05:24:17 PM
I'd be alright with Claiborne going to test the market if he doesn't choose to come back on a team friendly incentive based contract. This is a really solid free agent class of corners that I'd rather pay then Claiborne.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 05:57:01 PM
The first priority has to be locking down Demario Davis long term. His presence probably had the biggest effect on the D this season. The only question is how much guaranteed money do you give to a linebacker who had his first really good season in his sixth year?
I'd be alright with Claiborne going to test the market if he doesn't choose to come back on a team friendly incentive based contract. This is a really solid free agent class of corners that I'd rather pay then Claiborne.
This is the year that you fix your secondary in FA. There's a lot of talent on the market at safety as well.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2018, 06:12:00 PM
Investing in the OL is the easiest way to make a team succeed. "Good enough" is not good enough.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 06:13:39 PM
Both were surrounded by excrement.
They were also excrement.
Post by: Ornstein on January 16, 2018, 06:15:38 PM
When was the last time we made the playoffs without a very good OL? When was the last time we had a very good OL and did not make the playoffs?
Investing in the OL is the easiest way to make a team succeed. "Good enough" is not good enough.
The smartest thing Tannenbaum did while he was here was break the bank at every position on the o-line.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 06:25:48 PM
They were also excrement.
But they have also proven themselves to be not excrement, just a year ago. I think you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Also, you're eating dead money if you replace either of them this year.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 16, 2018, 06:42:16 PM
I guess Beachum could move to RT, but it would almost certainly be due to a first round OT, not anyone from free agency.
Post by: reuben on January 16, 2018, 06:42:51 PM
Andrew Norwell
Ryan Jensen
Chris Hubbard
Zach Fulton
Justin Pugh
Josh Kline
Cameron Fleming
There's a few others like (your boi) Weston Richburg, Jack Mewhort, and Nate Solder that have major injury concerns.
It's not a very strong group, but we can definitely find an upgrade at center in this group. Justin Pugh should be one of our top targets.
Ja'Wuan James, Don Penn, and Matt Slauson can all likely be had at the IR discount. I'm all for breaking the bank for top tier linemen, but I'll take whatever I can get.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 06:45:24 PM
Matt Slauson
I don't want that stuttering snitch anywhere near our locker room again.
Post by: Johnny English on January 16, 2018, 07:03:40 PM
Ja'Wuan James, Don Penn, and Matt Slauson can all likely be had at the IR discount. I'm all for breaking the bank for top tier linemen, but I'll take whatever I can get.
Penn's past the age where I'd have a reasonable hope of him recovering previous form after injury.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 16, 2018, 07:24:13 PM
He was actually really good before getting hurt.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 16, 2018, 07:37:39 PM
I think if we signed a guard, it would be after cutting Carpenter, saving his $4M and using it to sign a major upgrade. I think Carpenter is worth the net $4M he costs to keep, but that could be a sneaky way to upgrade guard.
Still, I think it's more likely we draft a guard/tackle in round 2 or 3. Push the starters in year 1, and take the job year 2 at the latest.
I'm all for spending up at center.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 17, 2018, 11:22:11 AM
I saw the idea of moving Beechum to the right, which I like if they draft an LT. Or even if they sign one. He'd be an upgrade on the right over what was here this year--assuming he can make the transition to the other side.
If Cousins (or another QB), ASJ, Davis, and Claiborne are addressed, I'm okay with spending money on the OL, but I'd still want to draft some talent there anyway. There is no depth on the line.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 23, 2018, 09:27:24 AM
Except Uncle Josh.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on March 23, 2018, 10:12:36 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 18, 2018, 09:33:24 AM
Looking at this makes our draft track record look pretty subpar. Although everything is relative so I don't know how the rest of the league looks comparatively
Post by: Badger on April 18, 2018, 10:18:05 AM
Looking at this makes our draft track record look pretty subpar.
[BREAKING NEWS]
Post by: dcm1602 on April 18, 2018, 11:55:26 AM
[BREAKING NEWS]
Well it's about Mac not previous to him
Post by: bojanglesman on May 14, 2018, 12:06:17 PM
There are a few players to where "pretty good" is not acceptable this year. Leonard Williams, Darron Lee, Trumaine Johnson and Jamal Adams. Johnson due to salary and the others due to draft position.
Adams had a solid year as a rookie and that's totally ok. But it won't be acceptable for him to have the same type of year this year. He's the mouthpiece of this team now and he has to make game changing plays this year. I think he will.
I don't know if Lee's slow progression is a function of him being a bit small for an ILB or if it's all on him. I remember it being a bit of a surprise when Bowles announced him as an inside linebacker after he was drafted. I think he was listed as an OLB through the draft process. As a first rounder, Lee can't have the same year he did last year and be considered a good pick.
Leonard Williams has played well but was a victim of injury and double teams last year. He needs to have a better year this year. Hopefully he'll stay healthy and have more help along the line.
Anyone expecting Trumaine Johnson to be the best corner in the league will be sadly disappointed. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be one of the best. He's going to give up plays because he will be covering the best WRs. I'm hoping his presence will allow Claiborne to shine this year since he won't be covering the #1 WR as much anymore. Bottom line, Johnson needs to make a big impact to justify his huge pay.
These 4 guys have to be better than just "good". Last year the Jets we're just a bunch of ok and good players. It's time for them to have a few game changers now.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 14, 2018, 08:31:19 PM
The only player we need to become a game changer is Darnold.
Adams and Williams are guys id like to see stick their entire careers here. I just hope they dont catch whatever Wilkerson had
Post by: bojanglesman on May 14, 2018, 08:34:01 PM
Im ok with all those guys being "pretty good" (hell id be thrilled if Lee became "pretty good")That first part is a recipe for mediocrity.
The only player we need to become a game changer is Darnold.
Adams and Williams are guys id like to see stick their entire careers here. I just hope they dont catch whatever Wilkerson had
Post by: dcm1602 on May 14, 2018, 08:41:25 PM
That first part is a recipe for mediocrity.
This is an offensive league and those are all defensive players.
You want to not be mediocre and you need a QB, wideout, or tight end that take over games.
And Johnson is 28, so id be shocked if hes playing at an elite level for more than another 2-3 years. And Lee has never looked like he could be a game changer.
Adams and Williams certainly could be. Would be spectacular if Adams turns into a Polamalu, but hes certainly not near that level yet.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 14, 2018, 08:54:13 PM
This is an offensive league and those are all defensive players.No idea what you are talking about. I'm just saying we need some game changers in order to start competing for the playoffs. Can't do it with a bunch of guys that play well sometimes. Who was the last player we that made a big impact with regularity? Revis? Snacks?
You want to not be mediocre and you need a QB, wideout, or tight end that take over games.
And Johnson is 28, so id be shocked if hes playing at an elite level for more than another 2-3 years. And Lee has never looked like he could be a game changer.
Adams and Williams certainly could be. Would be spectacular if Adams turns into a Polamalu, but hes certainly not near that level yet.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 14, 2018, 09:01:27 PM
No idea what you are talking about. I'm just saying we need some game changers in order to start competing for the playoffs. Can't do it with a bunch of guys that play well sometimes. Who was the last player we that made a big impact with regularity? Revis? Snacks?
Decker and Marshall were both gods in 2015
Post by: Heismanberg on May 14, 2018, 10:26:04 PM
And Lee has never looked like he could be a game changer.
Darron Lee was one of the better linebackers in the NFL down the stretch last season. He was all over the field.
He's only 23 years old. Let's see if things start to click for him this year.
Post by: Laxin on May 15, 2018, 07:35:55 AM
I think the team has a bunch of young developing players. Some may become great ones, some may just be good contributors... others may bust. Game changers are hard to pin point if they are scoring points or sacking the QB. We don't have an elite passrusher, WR, RB or TE so nothing really pops out, but there are some nice players elsewhere.
I also think FA should/will be used to target at least one game changer, especially on offense next offseason.
Post by: Badger on May 15, 2018, 08:51:13 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 15, 2018, 09:03:25 AM
I think what we've seen from Anderson is pretty close to his ceiling already unless Darnold can a new level of performance from him. So I think he'll continue to be a solid starter who makes the occasional big play. I'm sinking into pedantics but I don't expect to ever think of him as a game changer.
A deep shot touchdown can change a game though.
Anderson has elite deep speed, so defenses will have to account for him. We absolutely need Quincy Enunwa to stay healthy this season. He can be a serious force crossing the hashes for whoever is playing QB for us. Run after catch opportunities will be there, especially when Darnold takes over.
Post by: Laxin on May 15, 2018, 09:11:41 AM
I think what we've seen from Anderson is pretty close to his ceiling already unless Darnold can a new level of performance from him. So I think he'll continue to be a solid starter who makes the occasional big play. I'm sinking into pedantics but I don't expect to ever think of him as a game changer.
I guess when I say he can be a game changer, I don't mean that he'll be a top 5-10 WR. I think his skill set allows him to change a game on a single play. I think he can be a Mike Wallace type player- someone who was never one of the elite WRs in the game, but had the ability to create explosive plays that can alter a game. Sadly, his lack of compliance with the law may stop him from reaching that potential.
Post by: bojanglesman on May 15, 2018, 10:28:57 AM
The Jets (for what seems like forever) have had some guys that have maybe been in the top 1/2 of the league at their position, but no one in that upper echelon. That needs to change for them to start contending for the playoffs annually. I don't expect Darnold to fit that mold soon because of his position and how difficult it is to be an elite QB.
Post by: AlioTheFool on May 15, 2018, 11:25:11 AM
I'm also really excited to see what the line can do. I firmly believe it will be better than last year (if nothing else, it won't get worse minus Wilk). The only question, as usual, is the linebacker play, and even there, it's only the outside guys I'm worried about.
This is a good defense, and should remain that way for a few years. Darnold is the key to long-term success now. The defense will get him the ball, the question is what will he do with it?
Post by: insanity on May 15, 2018, 11:42:00 AM
(https://res.cloudinary.com/nflclubs/image/private/t_photogallery/f_auto/jets/udhdylpmgaj3jfvetbvy.jpg)
Post by: Laxin on May 15, 2018, 11:45:10 AM
Who the hell is this guy on the left. He looks like he could eat Skrine for a snack
(https://res.cloudinary.com/nflclubs/image/private/t_photogallery/f_auto/jets/udhdylpmgaj3jfvetbvy.jpg)
I think its Mike Pennel... I honestly don't recognize half of the players in that slide show
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 11, 2018, 11:18:17 AM
Quote
Earlier this offseason, a few weeks after Darnold was drafted, he joined a group of his teammates for dinner at Tao restaurant in Manhattan. Leonard Williams, first-round pick in 2015; Lee, first-round pick in 2016; and Jamal Adams, first-round pick in 2017. The Jets stocked their defense with all these young starters, and then they added their hopeful face of the franchise. “Definitely something of a bright point for the team, for sure,” Lee said, “but as a defense, it doesn’t change what we have to do.”
That was one of the first things Lee remembers telling Darnold—that if he won the starting job, the defense was behind him. If he made a mistake, be ready to bounce back, because they were going to get him the ball back.
That scenario happened immediately. The defense bolstered Darnold, and in turn, Darnold bolstered the hopes of the Jets. It was one night, for now. But you can see it, and they can see it, lasting much longer than that.
-SI
Post by: Libero_2 on September 11, 2018, 08:34:55 PM
-SI
I love that the youth (leaders) of this team is meeting and building chemistry. I hope they keep doing it and figuring out what the team needs to tick
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 05, 2018, 05:39:34 AM
Quote
The Jets are 13-29 since that week 17, 2015 Fitz implosion in Buffalo. That 0.310 winning percentage is the team's worst win% over a 42-game span since games played during the Kotite era.
Clean House
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 05, 2018, 11:18:15 AM
Clean House
I was thinking on the bus this morning about how I haven't disliked a post-Parcells coach as much as Bowles--not even Herm. Now I know why.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on November 05, 2018, 07:24:09 PM
Clean House
That's a damning stat.
Blow it up.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 03, 2019, 08:26:18 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 04, 2019, 11:34:08 AM
https://overthecap.com/thoughts-on-the-jets-implosion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
This is pretty spot on.
Post by: Gorilla on November 04, 2019, 03:12:25 PM
https://overthecap.com/thoughts-on-the-jets-implosion/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
I agree with IS as a 40-something Jets fan since the late 80's....this is spot on.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 11, 2019, 04:37:54 PM
Post by: Badger on November 11, 2019, 04:54:53 PM
Wild thought: if we added some decent OL, EDGE, and CB we would be a competitive teamYes, if we improved the worst areas of the team, which happen to be some of the most important, we'd be a lot better.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 13, 2019, 05:42:09 AM
Quote
OL/blocking TE drafted by the Jets recently:
2019 - Edoga/Wesco (both among worst in the league)
2018 -
2017 -
2016 - Shell (bad)
2015 - Harrison (never played)
WR drafted by Jets recently:
2019 -
2018 -
2017 - Stewart/Hansen (both out of NFL)
2016 - Peake
2015 - Devin Smith
People here defended Duff until the very end, even though it was apparent he was running this franchise into the ground
Post by: Laxin on December 13, 2019, 08:04:52 AM
People here defended Duff until the very end, even though it was apparent he was running this franchise into the ground
This is just so sad. The inability of this team to draft anything useful on the offensive side of the ball is mind blowing. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. The best offensive player they've drafted outside of Sam in the last decade is Bilal Powell. You can't succeed in the NFL with results like that.
Most teams can find talent at WR throughout the draft, but the Jets never can. Ardarius Steward, Chris Hansen, Charone Peake, Devin Smith, Jalen Sanders, Shaq Evans, Quincy Enunwa, Stephen Hill, Jordan White, Jeremy Kerley, Scotty McNight. Jeremy Kerley is the most successful WR out of the group which is downright sad.
They've totaled less than 5000 yards for the Jets in the last decade, which is less career yards than or close to the following WRs: Robert Woods, Marvin Jones, John Brown, Danny Ammendola.
Post by: Badger on December 13, 2019, 08:54:17 AM
People here defended Duff until the very end, even though it was apparent he was running this franchise into the groundCan't ground a plane that's not even in the air
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2019, 09:13:20 AM
People here defended Duff until the very end, even though it was apparent he was running this franchise into the ground
This is exactly why I bang the #firegase drum so hard. Of course, I could turn out completely wrong and he's really going to be a great coach someday, but I don't see anything that makes me think that's the case, and I don't want to lose another year or two of Darnold's career waiting to get to that conclusion.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 13, 2019, 09:56:40 AM
This is exactly why I bang the #firegase drum so hard. Of course, I could turn out completely wrong and he's really going to be a great coach someday, but I don't see anything that makes me think that's the case, and I don't want to lose another year or two of Darnold's career waiting to get to that conclusion.
Spot. On.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 09:58:08 AM
People here defended Duff until the very end, even though it was apparent he was running this franchise into the ground
I was on that train too long, how wrong I was, I admit that. That said, I didn't really want to change Gm's, I think they more difficult to replace than a coach. However, stability for stability sake is pretty dumb. Anyway, I hope Douglas is as good as we hope.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on December 13, 2019, 10:25:35 AM
Anyway, I hope Douglas is as good as we hope.
The hype and promise around him is basically the only thing that gives me hope this team could be headed in the right direction.
Even if Darnold pans out, it doesn't matter if everything else is excrement around him. Yesterday's game only reminded us how far we are from seriously competing in this league.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 10:43:23 AM
The hype and promise around him is basically the only thing that gives me hope this team could be headed in the right direction.
Even if Darnold pans out, it doesn't matter if everything else is excrement around him. Yesterday's game only reminded us how far we are from seriously competing in this league.
I kind of knew the Jets would be curb stomped, no revelation obviously, but I did kind of hope they would be competitive. The first half wasn't a disaster, But the roster last night was basically replacement level or worse, what can you expect against the best team in Football.
Douglas is about the only thing keeping optimism going around the Jets FO, then there is Darnold.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 10:46:23 AM
I kind of knew the Jets would be curb stomped, no revelation obviously, but I did kind of hope they would be competitive. The first half wasn't a disaster, But the roster last night was basically replacement level or worse, what can you expect against the best team in Football.
Douglas is about the only thing keeping optimism going around the Jets FO, then there is Darnold.
bingo
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 13, 2019, 11:28:41 AM
Quote
In each of his past 7 games Darnold has thrown for 218+ yards and 0-1 INTs. That's tied for the longest such streak in Jets history (Vinny, 1998).
Is this amazing? No. It's competency; something the Jets have long searched for.
13 franchises have never had a QB hit that streak
We have our QB. Finally. Now we need to draft around him. He should have been set up in year 2 to take the next step the way teams have built around Lamar, Josh Allen, Goff, Wentz, Dak, etc. so we’re a bit behind plan. Luckily Darnold is like the youngest QB ever.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2019, 11:46:35 AM
I think (hope) we're in good hands with Douglas. I'm just concerned about the guy who will be responsible for putting the players he acquires in positions to succeed.
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 13, 2019, 11:53:49 AM
I've said before that I'm still in wait-and-see mode, but I do believe in Douglas. I used the point that he gave us Ryan Kalil as a pump-the-breaks example, but he went out and did something to attempt to improve the offensive line, which is what his primary responsibility is and will be until Darnold has time to calculate pi to 10 digits in the pocket.
I think (hope) we're in good hands with Douglas. I'm just concerned about the guy who will be responsible for putting the players he acquires in positions to succeed.
Douglas was hired in part because of his association with Gase, and the premise that they could work together. Another reason I don't think he's going anywhere. You're right, he tried to address the O line with the limited time and options he had being hired in June, so I think we need a draft or two.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 13, 2019, 12:34:54 PM
The jobs are too scarce and the stakes are too high.
Further, Douglas has the security of two things. 1. A six year deal. 2. The knowledge that he didn't get to pick his own head coach.
I don't buy the argument that him and Gase are joined at the hip or that he'll be unable to be objective in his evaluation.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2019, 12:48:29 PM
No one in the NFL-not Joe Douglas, not John Fox or anyone else is going to willingly put themselves in a position to fail because of outright nepotism.
The jobs are too scarce and the stakes are too high.
Further, Douglas has the security of two things. 1. A six year deal. 2. The knowledge that he didn't get to pick his own head coach.
I don't buy the argument that him and Gase are joined at the hip or that he'll be unable to be objective in his evaluation.
That's not the problem. The arcane power structure is. Can Douglas fire him if he even wanted to, what's the process there? Lodging complaints and/or try to convince the owner why the coach needs to go.
It's all quite freaking weird. Plus nobody with Grey matter actually thinks Douglas will let his own tenure be a failure because he has good relations with Gase, that's freaking ridiculous.
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 13, 2019, 12:49:00 PM
No one in the NFL-not Joe Douglas, not John Fox or anyone else is going to willingly put themselves in a position to fail because of outright nepotism.
The jobs are too scarce and the stakes are too high.
Further, Douglas has the security of two things. 1. A six year deal. 2. The knowledge that he didn't get to pick his own head coach.
I don't buy the argument that him and Gase are joined at the hip or that he'll be unable to be objective in his evaluation.
I tend to agree with you there.
We know Gase has a working relationship with Douglas, and that Gase openly campaigned for Douglas' hiring. Beyond that, we don't really know anything. Douglas may love working with Gase, but he also might despise him.
But the issue still remains, and it's been discussed previously, Adam Gase's employment is not subject to Joe Douglas' will. It's completely up to whichever Johnson is running the team at any point in time.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2019, 12:54:33 PM
Plus nobody with Grey matter actually thinks Douglas will let his own tenure be a failure because he has good relations with Gase, that's freaking ridiculous.
Puck knows the score.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 13, 2019, 02:39:50 PM
As improved as this team has been with Beachum on the field I think that he needs to go next season. Dude is clearly on the decline.
Sam also needs a true NR1 WR around him. hopefully Gase can get over his excrement on Bell and learn to use him properly. A RB with his talent actually utilized can only help.
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2019, 04:37:32 PM
I'm hoping we target OLine both in FA and the draft. Harrison, I think, has earned a chance as a full time starter at center and Lewis can come in next season to fight for a position.I think every spot on the line can be upgraded, just bring in as much talent as possible and dump the obvious turds. If a very good center hits FA, Harrison isn't good enough to warrant not looking into them.
As improved as this team has been with Beachum on the field I think that he needs to go next season. Dude is clearly on the decline.
Sam also needs a true NR1 WR around him. hopefully Gase can get over his excrement on Bell and learn to use him properly. A RB with his talent actually utilized can only help.
Post by: Johnny English on December 14, 2019, 04:50:41 PM
I think every spot on the line can be upgraded, just bring in as much talent as possible and dump the obvious turds. If a very good center hits FA, Harrison isn't good enough to warrant not looking into them.
100% agreed. I'm not a huge fan of Harrison; I would love it if Douglas could find a way to get Biadasz. I don't think there are any standout centers in FA unless you want to have a second go with Spencer Long.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on January 04, 2020, 11:40:01 PM
A prerequisite of course is that the OL is sorted and Sam continues to progress.
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2020, 12:08:47 AM
With Buffalo showing today that they had no business in the post season and things unraveling in New England, with Brady possibly leaving and no heir appearent in sight, is the division a realistic goal in 2020?To be totally fair the Bills took a good team into OT. They didn't embarrass themselves.
A prerequisite of course is that the OL is sorted and Sam continues to progress.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 05, 2020, 01:42:28 AM
Though it's hard to gauge them, they looked like hot garbage week 1 and then we struggled against their backups badly
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 05, 2020, 01:43:37 AM
With Buffalo showing today that they had no business in the post season and things unraveling in New England, with Brady possibly leaving and no heir appearent in sight, is the division a realistic goal in 2020?The division should absolutely be the goal. Now, there's a chance Buffalo or New England has a huge year and makes it hard to win, but our history with winning division titles is arguably the most pathetic thing about the Jets. We need to change that.
A prerequisite of course is that the OL is sorted and Sam continues to progress.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 05, 2020, 04:54:58 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 05, 2020, 07:14:21 AM
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2020, 08:00:31 AM
If the division is even up for grabs next year it's a huge improvement over the past 15-20. That's the way the league intended it with the 2002 realignment, be better than 3 teams and host a playoff game.It was within reach once or twice. In 2009 if we had a fully functional offense we might have taken it. In 2015 if we swept the Bills we would have won the division.
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2020, 08:01:15 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 05, 2020, 08:22:00 AM
The Bills will not win anything with him. He should've thrown at least 4 INTs yesterday and the lateral play is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen an NFL player do.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 05, 2020, 08:32:39 AM
It was within reach once or twice. In 2009 if we had a fully functional offense we might have taken it. In 2015 if we swept the Bills we would have won the division.
Our 2010 team was 11-5 and as good as any in the league, get a bye and at least one home game and we could easily make the Super Bowl. Once parity comes back to our division we'll see more years like 2002 where it comes down to Week 17 and we're all playing for something. That's the point of eight 4-team divisions and head to heads in Week 17, it's just happened to have coincided with a 20 year dynasty in our division.
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2020, 09:01:37 AM
Our 2010 team was 11-5 and as good as any in the league, get a bye and at least one home game and we could easily make the Super Bowl. Once parity comes back to our division we'll see more years like 2002 where it comes down to Week 17 and we're all playing for something. That's the point of eight 4-team divisions and head to heads in Week 17, it's just happened to have coincided with a 20 year dynasty in our division.I left 2010 off because NE was like 14-2 that year. I would consider that to be a division title out of reach.
Post by: Laxin on January 05, 2020, 01:26:20 PM
It's a scary thought to think Buffalo could run away with the division next year
Though it's hard to gauge them, they looked like hot garbage week 1 and then we struggled against their backups badly
I mean they were probably still playing more starters from week 1 in the last game when they benched players than the Jets were simply due to injuries.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 05, 2020, 04:00:49 PM
I mean they were probably still playing more starters from week 1 in the last game when they benched players than the Jets were simply due to injuries.
Doubtful
But playing Matt Barkley is a difference maker in its own (even though it's not like Allens thst good)
They matched up with us with trash
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 05, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
I left 2010 off because NE was like 14-2 that year. I would consider that to be a division title out of reach.
True, that's what I'm saying. Count the playoff game they were 14-3, 2 of the losses to us. We were as good as anyone but because of them had to always play three road playoff games to reach the Super Bowl. The fact that we got to the AFC Championship Game twice in a row that way is amazing when you look at the rest of our history. We did it with Walt Michaels in 1982 and that's it. The Parcells year we had a bye and home game, only needed one road win to get in and lost the game. Even the 1968 team just had Oakland at home and then the Super Bowl.
Since the NFL went to the eight 4-team divisions in 2002 there have been 17 completed seasons. In the NFC with no Patriots they've had 12 of their 16 teams represent the conference in the Super Bowl, Minnesota currently gives them a chance to make it 13 in 18 seasons.
In the AFC, 8 of the 17 have been the Patriots (2001 doesn't count), Pittsburgh 3, Indianapolis 2, Denver 2, Baltimore and Oakland. That's six teams. In that same span non Patriots AFC East teams have hosted 2 playoff games, the Jets in 2002 and Miami in 2008. We hold the all time record for most consecutive road playoff games with 10. Getting rid of the Patriots dynasty will bring on lot of hope for a lot of teams, us being one of the main beneficiaries.
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2020, 10:47:47 PM
True, that's what I'm saying. Count the playoff game they were 14-3, 2 of the losses to us. We were as good as anyone but because of them had to always play three road playoff games to reach the Super Bowl. The fact that we got to the AFC Championship Game twice in a row that way is amazing when you look at the rest of our history. We did it with Walt Michaels in 1982 and that's it. The Parcells year we had a bye and home game, only needed one road win to get in and lost the game. Even the 1968 team just had Oakland at home and then the Super Bowl.Stop getting my hopes up.
Since the NFL went to the eight 4-team divisions in 2002 there have been 17 completed seasons. In the NFC with no Patriots they've had 12 of their 16 teams represent the conference in the Super Bowl, Minnesota currently gives them a chance to make it 13 in 18 seasons.
In the AFC, 8 of the 17 have been the Patriots (2001 doesn't count), Pittsburgh 3, Indianapolis 2, Denver 2, Baltimore and Oakland. That's six teams. In that same span non Patriots AFC East teams have hosted 2 playoff games, the Jets in 2002 and Miami in 2008. We hold the all time record for most consecutive road playoff games with 10. Getting rid of the Patriots dynasty will bring on lot of hope for a lot of teams, us being one of the main beneficiaries.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 06, 2020, 11:46:49 AM
Stop getting my hopes up.
The numbers are what they are. The whole system is designed for parity, you see it playing out in the NFC where most of them have made it to the Super Bowl. Get the Patriots out of the way and there's no reason we can't see more variety in the AFC, more than likely we will, we have to, actually. There will still be runs by good teams, maybe KC or Baltimore if they can sustain it, but nothing like we have seen with the Patriots.
Even if Brady comes back next year at 43 and they start well, we know they are vulnerable to stumble late which means the division won't be a foregone conclusion. Not saying they're totally done, but beginning from next season we should be at least in play for some of the excrement that has been out of reach for a long, long time.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 06, 2020, 12:38:55 PM
We hold the all time record for most consecutive road playoff games with 10.
That's absolutely mind-boggling until I remember that the team has been to two AFC Title games since the last time we had a home playoff game.
The Jets have hosted two home playoff games in the time I've been alive. I'm 32. Unreal.
Having said that, I've attended a Yankees world series game, multiple stanley cup finals with the Devils and I saw (a very aged) Hulk Hogan enter at WrestleMania. There was nothing I've ever experienced like the AFC East clincher against Green Bay and then the absolute drubbing of Indy the following week. Old Giants stadium was an absolute madhouse.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 06, 2020, 12:49:35 PM
That's absolutely mind-boggling until I remember that the team has been to two AFC Title games since the last time we had a home playoff game.
The Jets have hosted two home playoff games in the time I've been alive. I'm 32. Unreal.
Having said that, I've attended a Yankees world series game, multiple stanley cup finals with the Devils and I saw (a very aged) Hulk Hogan enter at WrestleMania. There was nothing I've ever experienced like the AFC East clincher against Green Bay and then the absolute drubbing of Indy the following week. Old Giants stadium was an absolute madhouse.
It's a combination of us being good enough to get to the playoffs and win a few times, and the Patriots being better so that we never got a home game. Since the 2002 realignment you have to win the division to host a game, prior to that you could do it as a top Wild Card. That's how we got home games in 1981, 1985 and 1986.
We have 7 road playoff wins in the 60-year history of the team, 4 in the first two Rex years, Herm at San Diego in 2004 and 2 in 1982 with Walt Michaels, Richard Todd and the Sack Exchange. Even that year was an aberration because of the strike, it was a 9 game season so there were 8 teams in the playoffs and everyone had to play three games to reach the Super Bowl, there was no bye. We blew the last regular season game at KC which cost us a home game in the first round, actually ended the season with three road games and three more road playoff games. The Mud Bowl in Miami was our 6th straight road game.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 24, 2020, 12:02:07 PM
Quote
From speaking with sources, it sounds like the New York Jets' initial inclination is to go with an offensive tackle or cornerback with their first-round pick. The Jets have the 11th-overall pick, so there should be some good options available as the 2020 NFL Draft has a strong class of offensive tackle talent. Team sources say there could be four tackles who go as top-20 pick, with that group consisting of Georgia's Andrew Thomas, Louisville's Mekhi Becton, Iowa's Tristan Wirfs and Alabama's Jedrick Wills. One source thought Becton could be a fit for New York from those four.
At cornerback, Ohio State's Jeff Okudah will probably be off the board. Florida's C.J. Henderson could be the next cornerback to get selected, but Henderson's weak tackling could cause some teams to not view him as being worthy of going that high.
I asked about Alabama wide receiver Jerry Jeudy or another one of the talented wideouts, like Oklahoma's CeeDee Lamb or Colorado's Laviska Shenault, but team sources didn't think New York would go that direction. This is a strong draft for wideouts, so the Jets could land a good talent at that position on the second day. It sounded like theteam also might look to the free agency market for receiver talent.
Additionally, new Jets general manager Joe Douglas comes from Philadelphia, and the Eagles were a team that devoted a lot of resources toward building their offensive and defensive line. Thus, sources believe the Jets' inclination will be toward addressing the offensive line with one of those edge protectors for Sam Darnold.
Post by: reuben on January 24, 2020, 12:21:13 PM
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2020, 12:29:21 PM
God, if we pick a freaking cornerback at 11...If there's a run on the top OTs early, and if that means that Okudah falls to #11, and if we've already significantly addressed OL in FA, I can see a scenario in which I'm not unhappy with a corner as our first pick.
A combination of those three seems unlikely though.
Post by: insanity on January 24, 2020, 12:41:14 PM
If there's a run on the top OTs early, and if that means that Okudah falls to #11, and if we've already significantly addressed OL in FA, I can see a scenario in which I'm not unhappy with a corner as our first pick.If X 3
A combination of those three seems unlikely though.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 24, 2020, 12:47:06 PM
God, if we pick a freaking cornerback at 11...
Can't work out any worse than taking Dee Milliner at #9.
But yeah, get an OT please. Get two if you can.
Post by: Jumbo on January 24, 2020, 12:48:02 PM
Post by: Laxin on January 24, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
If there's a run on the top OTs early, and if that means that Okudah falls to #11, and if we've already significantly addressed OL in FA, I can see a scenario in which I'm not unhappy with a corner as our first pick.
A combination of those three seems unlikely though.
Both WRs would have to be taken as well, otherwise my head would explode
Post by: MBGreen on January 24, 2020, 01:35:16 PM
If there's a run on the top OTs early, and if that means that Okudah falls to #11, and if we've already significantly addressed OL in FA, I can see a scenario in which I'm not unhappy with a corner as our first pick.
A combination of those three seems unlikely though.
We take a CB not named Okudah in the 1st round, and i'll murder Joe Douglas myself.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2020, 02:15:37 PM
God, if we pick a freaking cornerback at 11...
BUH GAWD THATS DEE MILLINERS MUSIC
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2020, 02:16:51 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 24, 2020, 02:20:12 PM
There are 5 positions on the OL that have lots of room for upgrade. This team hasn't had a true pass-rushing threat since a Bush was in the White House. And they need a true #1 weapon for Sam to throw to.
I highly doubt all of those will be addressed in free agency.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2020, 02:23:53 PM
I could give a freak about the talent on defense until we have a real OL and legitimate weapons around Sam.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 24, 2020, 02:27:59 PM
BUH GAWD THATS DEE MILLINERS MUSIC
AW SUNOVABITCH!
Post by: Jumbo on January 24, 2020, 02:32:20 PM
We were fine this year on defense with scrubs at CB (other than Poole).
I could give a freak about the talent on defense until we have a real OL and legitimate weapons around Sam.
There won't ever be a perfect situation around Sam. If Chase Young fell to 11 and we passed him up to take an OT I would be annoyed.
Post by: Johnny English on January 24, 2020, 02:43:19 PM
I don't see a situation where I'm happy if the Jets take a corner with the first-rounder.We're not leaving Okudah on the board at #11 to reach for a center.
There are 5 positions on the OL that have lots of room for upgrade. This team hasn't had a true pass-rushing threat since a Bush was in the White House. And they need a true #1 weapon for Sam to throw to.
I highly doubt all of those will be addressed in free agency.
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 24, 2020, 02:50:31 PM
There won't ever be a perfect situation around Sam. If Chase Young fell to 11 and we passed him up to take an OT I would be annoyed.
I'd still rather overdraft a tackle, guard, or center than take any other position in R1. Unless they've completely overhauled the OL in free agency. Then, my order becomes EDGE then WR. After all of those positions are addressed, Douglas can acquire all the CBs he wants.
Post by: mj2sexay on January 24, 2020, 02:52:28 PM
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 24, 2020, 02:58:03 PM
I'd still rather overdraft a tackle, guard, or center than take any other position in R1.
You want to be careful over drafting anyone, that's how you end up with players that don't live up to the pick. After Ken O'Brien was sacked 62 times in 1985 we reached for O line in the first two rounds of the 1986 draft. First rounder Mike Haight hung around a few years but was average at best, second rounder Doug Williams didn't make the team out of camp.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2020, 03:22:42 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on January 24, 2020, 03:38:35 PM
Whoever we pick, I'll find a way to think it's good.
You know what, this...
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 24, 2020, 03:54:16 PM
Whoever we pick, I'll find a way to think it's good.
That's what we all do. It makes waiting for the guy to actually be good seem so much longer.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 24, 2020, 03:55:42 PM
- 1. OL
- 2. OL
- 3. CB
- 4. WR
- 5. EDGE
CB is an obvious need for us. If a CB is the best player available, I'm not opposed to it. OL is priority 1, but if there is a better CB prospect on the board, we should look hard at that, too.
Obviously, we will know more after free agency. If Jenkins walks, EDGE becomes a much bigger deal. If we sign multiple OL in FA, then OL becomes a little less pressing in the 1st round.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 24, 2020, 04:04:18 PM
I'm not up on the best CB prospects yet besides Okudah, but I think our needs are
- 1. OL
- 2. OL
- 3. Gord
- 4. GORD
- 5. GORD!!
Corrected
Post by: reuben on January 24, 2020, 04:14:47 PM
You want to be careful over drafting anyone, that's how you end up with players that don't live up to the pick.
Much safer to draft sure things like the Williams'?
I fully understand how weak we are at cornerback. If the goal of this team is to win games in 2020, let's go get a good player at a position of weakness. But if the goal of this team is to win a championship this decade, we need protection for Sam. Failing that, we need someone to catch passes from Sam. The only other remotely reasonable scenario is an edge rusher because it's an area of extreme weakness and high positional value.
We have dug ourselves so deep a talent hole on the offensive side of the ball that BPA isn't even visible. I'm counting on Jack Conklin and one other very expensive free agent, but if one of those guys goes down? Then we've got a dogshit offensive line once again. That can't happen.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 24, 2020, 05:55:10 PM
But regardless I don't want to see this team going corner in the first. We've had such hot excrement luck for a long freaking time with corner, that I'm just more used to having a revolving door at the position.
Unless the team views corner as the safest pick and us being unable to trade out, I'd rather avoid the position
Post by: Badger on January 24, 2020, 06:36:06 PM
I'd take Okudah in two seconds if he fell to 11. Otherwise depending on what happens in free agency, o-line or jeudy/lamb.Our CBs are trash, so we certainly can't write off the possibility.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2020, 09:46:51 PM
Much safer to draft sure things like the Williams'?
I fully understand how weak we are at cornerback. If the goal of this team is to win games in 2020, let's go get a good player at a position of weakness. But if the goal of this team is to win a championship this decade, we need protection for Sam. Failing that, we need someone to catch passes from Sam. The only other remotely reasonable scenario is an edge rusher because it's an area of extreme weakness and high positional value.
We have dug ourselves so deep a talent hole on the offensive side of the ball that BPA isn't even visible. I'm counting on Jack Conklin and one other very expensive free agent, but if one of those guys goes down? Then we've got a dogshit offensive line once again. That can't happen.
Thank you sir for doing the Lords work
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2020, 09:50:09 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2020, 09:55:14 PM
2011: 30 - Wilkerson - iDL
2012: 16 - Coples - DL
2013: 9 - Dee Milliner - CB
2013: 13 - Sheldon Richardson - iDL
2014: 18 - Calvin Pryor - S
2015: 6 - Leonard Williams - iDL
2016: 20 - Darron Lee - ILB
2017: 6 - Jamal Adams - S
2018: Sam
2019: 3 - Quinnen Williams - iDL
Post by: dcm1602 on January 25, 2020, 07:13:32 AM
Much safer to draft sure things like the Williams'?
I fully understand how weak we are at cornerback. If the goal of this team is to win games in 2020, let's go get a good player at a position of weakness. But if the goal of this team is to win a championship this decade, we need protection for Sam. Failing that, we need someone to catch passes from Sam. The only other remotely reasonable scenario is an edge rusher because it's an area of extreme weakness and high positional value.
We have dug ourselves so deep a talent hole on the offensive side of the ball that BPA isn't even visible. I'm counting on Jack Conklin and one other very expensive free agent, but if one of those guys goes down? Then we've got a dogshit offensive line once again. That can't happen.
At least Williams was a fairly good football player, just not one worthy of the spot.
Kyle Wilson, Dee Milliner, Revis 2.0, Trumaine Johnson
Williams was far more valuable than all those fuckers. That said Coples was a catastrophic bust, but he was never viewed a as safe pick.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 25, 2020, 07:33:59 AM
He was certainly worth the pick.
Expecting large sack totals out of him was always ridiculous. He is a disruptive player and was elite against the run at times.
Post by: Rosetta Stoned on January 25, 2020, 08:28:30 AM
CorrectedThis, but seriously.
Post by: klaximilian on January 25, 2020, 10:25:07 AM
Quinnen Williams was considered the best player in the draft.
He was certainly worth the pick.
Expecting large sack totals out of him was always ridiculous. He is a disruptive player and was elite against the run at times.
This. As fans we have to walk the fine line off expectation vs. realistic output. I know that's difficult given the Jets past history drafting in the past 10 years, and Leonard Williams, but expecting an interior lineman to dominate with sacks in his rookie season is just not something you see every day.
When on the field, he held his own and will likely grow into his role next season. He has plenty of time to mature and grow into a dominate force in both the run and pass game.
The only thing that was mildly concerning was his playing time, but I still think Q is going to be an elite player in the near future.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 25, 2020, 11:23:59 AM
Quinnen Williams was considered the best player in the draft.
He was certainly worth the pick.
Expecting large sack totals out of him was always ridiculous. He is a disruptive player and was elite against the run at times.
Not trying to start an argument here, but Leonard Williams received that tag as well.
I also don’t think there is any way Quinnen was clearly a better prospect than Bosa. If you want to say they graded out equal/similar, I’m fine with that. Moot point because Bosa was gone.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 25, 2020, 11:41:52 AM
Hopefully Quinnen turns into the next Aaron Donald or Fletcher Cox so I can shut the freak up.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 25, 2020, 11:52:54 AM
There was no reason to have any faith in those guys before the Quinnen pick
Phillips probably doesn’t make the team if we draft any OLB other than Polite’s sorry derriere
Post by: bojanglesman on January 25, 2020, 12:14:36 PM
Shepherd and Fatukasi were not good in 2018.We could probably sign Polite back real cheap. #Capchess
There was no reason to have any faith in those guys before the Quinnen pick
Phillips probably doesn’t make the team if we draft any OLB other than Polite’s sorry derriere
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 25, 2020, 12:27:24 PM
My point is simply that needing a position doesn't make a player better just because you drafted him high to fill the need. It's how you end up with inferior players.
Post by: d sw0rdz on January 25, 2020, 12:27:51 PM
Post by: reuben on January 25, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
I didn't know which Williams reuben was referring to.
I was referring to both Williams's and I don't want to derail this conversation into a debate about Q's future which, for the record, I believe is bright, but the fact of the matter is he was outperformed as a rookie by a variety of JO-favorite guys that would have been considered reaches at the time. Two of Heismanberg's favorites, Metcalf and Taylor, guys that scared the excrement out of me as prospects, would have been ASTRONOMICALLY high reaches in hindsight: DK Metcalf looked raw as freak this season and still put up 900 yards and Jawaan Taylor played every single snap for JAX. My guy, Josh Allen, did OK too. Any of those three guys puts us in a better situation going into 2020 than the safest pick in the draft. That's the bottom line.
BPA's for pussies like Mike Maccagnan who want to have a sound reason for failing. Let's go get some freaking linemen.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 25, 2020, 09:04:48 PM
I was referring to both Williams's and I don't want to derail this conversation into a debate about Q's future which, for the record, I believe is bright, but the fact of the matter is he was outperformed as a rookie by a variety of JO-favorite guys that would have been considered reaches at the time. Two of Heismanberg's favorites, Metcalf and Taylor, guys that scared the excrement out of me as prospects, would have been ASTRONOMICALLY high reaches in hindsight: DK Metcalf looked raw as freak this season and still put up 900 yards and Jawaan Taylor played every single snap for JAX. My guy, Josh Allen, did OK too. Any of those three guys puts us in a better situation going into 2020 than the safest pick in the draft. That's the bottom line.
BPA's for pussies like Mike Maccagnan who want to have a sound reason for failing. Let's go get some freaking linemen.
QFT
Post by: Heismanberg on January 25, 2020, 09:39:50 PM
i want somebody to bring up the list of names we could have drafted instead of wasting that pic on that piece of excrement polite
We didn't know this at the time but it's fair to say that literally any player selected after him would have been a better pick
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 26, 2020, 10:45:38 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 27, 2020, 11:33:59 PM
Quinnen Williams was considered the best player in the draft.
He was certainly worth the pick.
Expecting large sack totals out of him was always ridiculous. He is a disruptive player and was elite against the run at times.
To be fair I thought we were talking about Leonard Williams
While I'm not optimistic on Quennin, this year was a excrement show for the whole team and he was a rookie. I'm not going to complain about the pick unless he looks like a bag of dicks next year
But I'm not going to be inspired or excited about the pick until he shows that he's at least worth a second contract
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 28, 2020, 07:38:27 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on January 28, 2020, 08:12:09 AM
I wouldn't call Q a excrement show. He didn't dominate but he was a rookie in a tough position, he did contribute to a solid run D. Whatever happened with Leonard can't be held against Q.
I was referring to the whole team as a excrement show
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 28, 2020, 08:14:43 AM
I was referring to the whole team as a excrement show
I see. Still disagree, first half of the season and the previous three years, yes. I feel like we rallied from excrement show status, finally, hoping we build on it. The D certainly held up their end with Q in the middle of it.
Post by: reuben on February 20, 2020, 09:28:42 AM
Post by: MBGreen on February 20, 2020, 09:32:04 AM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1230507451465728001 (https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1230507451465728001)
moar pix
Post by: Heismanberg on February 20, 2020, 09:42:58 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on February 20, 2020, 10:07:32 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on February 20, 2020, 05:39:22 PM
If the tackles and Jerry Jeudy are gone, I’m hoping for Henry Ruggs over Ceedee Lamb or any EDGE defender.
Rank them in terms of your priorities specifically for the Jets right now
Becton, Wirfs, Thomas, Wills, Jeudy, Ruggs, Lamb, Chaisson, Epenesa, Simmons
I am assuming the following are definitely being drafted before 11, Young, Okudah, Burrow, Tagovailoa.
If it were me I think mine would look like this
1. Becton
2. Wirfs
3. Jeudy
4. Thomas
5. Wills
6. Simmons
7. Lamb
8. Ruggs
9. Chaisson
10. Epenesa
In thinking about it, I don't trust Chaisson to be special. I just don't see the dominance in college that tells me it will happen. I think Epenesa is more suited as a 4-3 end.
I don't trust Lamb (as I mentioned a few days ago) but not knowing a lot about Ruggs other than Speed Speed Speed, I am hesitant to put him high on my list.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 20, 2020, 05:43:35 PM
Wills
Thomas
Wirfs
Jeudy
Ruggs
I thought Ruggs would only be a one or two trick pony initially, but he is an elite route runner. Just like Jeudy. Jeudy is just a little better there and in contested situations.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 20, 2020, 05:43:36 PM
Obvious gord with extra 6th.
Did we ever find out if Alex Lewis caused us to give up our 7th rounder or not?
Post by: Libero_2 on February 20, 2020, 05:44:22 PM
Becton
Wills
Thomas
Wirfs
Jeudy
Ruggs
Different yet related question. Pre-combine, what order do you think the tackles go in on draft day?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 20, 2020, 05:46:01 PM
Different yet related question. Pre-combine, what order do you think the tackles go in on draft day?
Wills, Becton, Wirfs, Thomas
Post by: Heismanberg on February 20, 2020, 05:46:46 PM
Did we ever find out if Alex Lewis caused us to give up our 7th rounder or not?
We don't have a 7th rounder, but we do have two 6ths.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 20, 2020, 06:33:21 PM
We don't have a 7th rounder, but we do have two 6ths.Gotcha
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 20, 2020, 07:03:40 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on February 20, 2020, 08:08:56 PM
Idc if Simmons is the next Darron Lee, we draft him over an offensive player and I march on the Douglas home
I could see a scenario albeit a limited one where he is BPA and there is t really and offensive option
1. Burrow
2. Young
3 Okudah
4. Wills
5. Tua
6. Becton
7. Wirfs
8. Jeudy
9. Lamb
10. Thomas
That is about as worst case a scenario as possible for us, and I can easily see Simmons (or another defender) being top guy on the board by a considerable amount.
Post by: MBGreen on February 21, 2020, 08:24:34 AM
I could see a scenario albeit a limited one where he is BPA and there is t really and offensive option
1. Burrow
2. Young
3 Okudah
4. Wills
5. Tua
6. Becton
7. Wirfs
8. Jeudy
9. Lamb
10. Thomas
That is about as worst case a scenario as possible for us, and I can easily see Simmons (or another defender) being top guy on the board by a considerable amount.
not high on Andrew Thomas?
Post by: delavan on February 21, 2020, 09:55:36 AM
We don't have a 7th rounder, but we do have two 6ths.if e.g. a Rodrigo Blakenship were still available would you consider using the 2nd 6th round pick on him (or go FA to challenge Sam Ficken)?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 21, 2020, 10:09:22 AM
if e.g. a Rodrigo Blakenship were still available would you consider using the 2nd 6th round pick on him (or go FA to challenge Sam Ficken)?
I want Rodrigo
A kicker that wears sports specs. Get it done.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 21, 2020, 10:15:38 AM
I could see a scenario albeit a limited one where he is BPA and there is t really and offensive option
1. Burrow
2. Young
3 Okudah
4. Wills
5. Tua
6. Becton
7. Wirfs
8. Jeudy
9. Lamb
10. Thomas
That is about as worst case a scenario as possible for us, and I can easily see Simmons (or another defender) being top guy on the board by a considerable amount.
Then it's essentially a lock. If there's one thing I learned in being a Jets is always expect the WCS to always happen.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 21, 2020, 10:20:37 AM
I could see a scenario albeit a limited one where he is BPA and there is t really and offensive option
1. Burrow
2. Young
3 Okudah
4. Wills
5. Tua
6. Becton
7. Wirfs
8. Jeudy
9. Lamb
10. Thomas
That is about as worst case a scenario as possible for us, and I can easily see Simmons (or another defender) being top guy on the board by a considerable amount.
Take Ruggs and go score some points
Post by: MexJetinBcn on February 21, 2020, 10:22:12 AM
Then it's essentially a lock. If there's one thing I learned in being a Jets is always expect the WCS to always happen.
Not really in the draft. Every year, somehow we watch the best player fall into our laps. Then we freak up everything else but in terms of luck, we can't really complain.
Post by: mj2sexay on February 21, 2020, 10:30:56 AM
I could see a scenario albeit a limited one where he is BPA and there is t really and offensive option
1. Burrow
2. Young
3 Okudah
4. Wills
5. Tua
6. Becton
7. Wirfs
8. Jeudy
9. Lamb
10. Thomas
That is about as worst case a scenario as possible for us, and I can easily see Simmons (or another defender) being top guy on the board by a considerable amount.
It might not be that bad of a scenario when you consider Oakland, Tampa (depending on if they retain Jameis or decide the play is to sign Rivers for two years and develop someone behind him) or Indy might both look to move up to 11 to take Herbert.
I also think if this scenario plays out where there's such a tackle run by pick 7 that Douglas might try to move up to 8 using the 3rd we got from the Giants in order to nab his choice of remaining talent on the offensive line.
Post by: CatoTheElder on February 21, 2020, 01:29:46 PM
if e.g. a Rodrigo Blakenship were still available would you consider using the 2nd 6th round pick on him (or go FA to challenge Sam Ficken)?
(https://images.app.goo.gl/Vn4n92kerPP8hZQ36)
Dude looks like he knows how to make a great skinny soy late but doesn't think you're sophisticated enough to appreciate it.
Post by: Libero_2 on February 21, 2020, 03:26:39 PM
not high on Andrew Thomas?
He went at 10 to cleveland in my scenario...
Then it's essentially a lock. If there's one thing I learned in being a Jets is always expect the WCS to always happen.
I'm with Mex on this one. The number of times we got a guy we never expected a shot at in the past decade is pretty high. Sam Darnold, Jamal Adams, Mo Wilkerson, Kyle Wilson (we were all thrilled on draft day, even if it didn't work out), Sanchez. I mean all of those guys were longshots to end up Jets, and yet they all did.
It might not be that bad of a scenario when you consider Oakland, Tampa (depending on if they retain Jameis or decide the play is to sign Rivers for two years and develop someone behind him) or Indy might both look to move up to 11 to take Herbert.
I also think if this scenario plays out where there's such a tackle run by pick 7 that Douglas might try to move up to 8 using the 3rd we got from the Giants in order to nab his choice of remaining talent on the offensive line.
I agree on count 1, if Herbert is still on the board, somebody is going to try and jump up. I actually imagine it would be Miami jumping up to 10, since they would never trade with us.
As for us moving up, I just don't see it happening. I think that Douglas will hold his water, in hopes somebody of the top 4 OT's falls, and if they don't he tries to drop back to recoup some value, or goes and grabs the top playmaker on his board, even if it isn't an offensive stud. Particularly if he believes a lock down CB is available.
I want RodrigoHe needs to be squarely on the top of our board once we enter the 6th.
A kicker that wears sports specs. Get it done.
Post by: Derek Smalls on February 21, 2020, 05:03:27 PM
Take Ruggs and go score some pointsDo you think Ruggs works better as a Robby replacement or alongside Robby? I know they arent the same player. If we had both together, our offensive speed would all of a sudden be off the charts.
I haven't watched much film on any of these guys besides what I saw in college but we need to get at least 1 wr in the first 2 days. I have no problem if that's at 11 and i have no problem if that's Ruggs.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 21, 2020, 05:49:23 PM
Do you think Ruggs works better as a Robby replacement or alongside Robby? I know they arent the same player. If we had both together, our offensive speed would all of a sudden be off the charts.
I haven't watched much film on any of these guys besides what I saw in college but we need to get at least 1 wr in the first 2 days. I have no problem if that's at 11 and i have no problem if that's Ruggs.
I’d love to have both.
Ruggs is a much better route runner than I thought he’d be.
He’s a YAC machine which compliments Anderson’s game.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on February 21, 2020, 06:11:43 PM
I want Rodrigo
A kicker that wears sports specs. Get it done.
Since we're overhauling the kicking department, who can replace Lach Edwards once someone backs up the truck for him?
Post by: Libero_2 on February 21, 2020, 08:49:41 PM
I’d love to have both.
Ruggs is a much better route runner than I thought he’d be.
He’s a YAC machine which compliments Anderson’s game.
When are you going to start up your positional rankings threads this year?
Post by: dcm1602 on February 21, 2020, 10:15:34 PM
Since we're overhauling the kicking department, who can replace Lach Edwards once someone backs up the truck for him?
I heard this xfl dude Marquette King is pretty good
Post by: reuben on February 22, 2020, 01:52:18 AM
I heard this xfl dude Marquette King is pretty good
Mike Vanderjagt as a punter.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 22, 2020, 07:51:35 AM
When are you going to start up your positional rankings threads this year?
right meow
Post by: delavan on February 22, 2020, 09:42:46 PM
Since we're overhauling the kicking department, who can replace Lach Edwards once someone backs up the truck for him?
Braden Mann, A&M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSse2wgJZ58
Post by: Laxin on February 24, 2020, 08:19:39 AM
Becton
Wills
Thomas
Wirfs
Jeudy
Ruggs
I thought Ruggs would only be a one or two trick pony initially, but he is an elite route runner. Just like Jeudy. Jeudy is just a little better there and in contested situations.
Not a fan of Lamb?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 24, 2020, 10:34:07 AM
Not a fan of Lamb?
Lamb is really good but he isn’t a strong route runner and I worry he’ll have a tough time getting open early in his career.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 24, 2020, 10:55:42 AM
Lamb is really good but he isn’t a strong route runner and I worry he’ll have a tough time getting open early in his career.
What you doing if you’re forced to pick between Higgins and Lamb?
Post by: Heismanberg on February 24, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
What you doing if you’re forced to pick between Higgins and Lamb?
Trade out
Post by: Libero_2 on February 24, 2020, 04:32:42 PM
What you doing if you’re forced to pick between Higgins and Lamb?
I would assume in that scenario a damn good prospect from another position will be on the board if we can’t trade out. Like a top tackle, or possibly a CB like Fulton or Edge guy like Chaisson, even if I’m not really high on them for us at 11. I’d be happier with either than Higgins or Lamb given the depth of the WRs in this group
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 24, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Trade out
Here is Mr. Electric’s expert breakdown of "overrated" Oklahoma WR CeeDee Lamb:
https://twitter.com/backaftathis/status/1232134728897224704?s=12
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 24, 2020, 10:39:59 PM
Trade out
I would assume in that scenario a damn good prospect from another position will be on the board if we can’t trade out. Like a top tackle, or possibly a CB like Fulton or Edge guy like Chaisson, even if I’m not really high on them for us at 11. I’d be happier with either than Higgins or Lamb given the depth of the WRs in this group
Neither of you answered the question. Of course you would trade out or take a better prospect at a postion of need. That wasn’t the question.
Post by: Heismanberg on February 24, 2020, 10:50:43 PM
Neither of you answered the question. Of course you would trade out or take a better prospect at a postion of need. That wasn’t the question.
It's impossible to answer that question before the NFL Combine and Free Agency.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 24, 2020, 10:53:04 PM
It's impossible to answer that question before the NFL Combine and Free Agency.
Table all further discussion until then
Post by: Heismanberg on February 24, 2020, 11:07:24 PM
Higgins wins down the field and in the red zone. I think his game would help Sam more, but if/when we lose Robby Anderson, we'll need a splash player. Lamb is a big play waiting to happen, but I do think he will struggle to create separation.
Not sure if I trust Gase to manufacture touches for guys like Shenault and Lamb.
---
I just don't think we know their value yet. We also don't know what our pre-draft roster looks like yet either.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 24, 2020, 11:10:13 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on February 24, 2020, 11:12:40 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on February 24, 2020, 11:15:01 PM
Good breakdown. Hopefully it’s a moot point because we’re drafting OL or there’s a better receiver available but it’s not a 0% possibility.
I'd honestly rather see us reach on a tackle like Josh Jones than take a receiver early.
WR is deep, OT is not.
FA will answer a lot of questions, because Douglas might go out and sign a couple of tackles. Then what? EDGE?
Post by: Libero_2 on February 25, 2020, 05:27:20 AM
I'd honestly rather see us reach on a tackle like Josh Jones than take a receiver early.
WR is deep, OT is not.
FA will answer a lot of questions, because Douglas might go out and sign a couple of tackles. Then what? EDGE?
If we don’t get our tackle in round 1, I don’t think we are getting more than depth /project starter.
With WR I think their will be some all-pros taken in the 4th or 5th round. This class is just too good. I have said it before but I want to double dip at WR if we keep Robbie and we definitely need to if we do lose him.
In FA we could theoretically sign enough OL to be satisfied not taking a guy early. But there aren’t any FA WRs to speak of aside from Robbie and Cooper. As for what we would do if we don’t have a tackle option we like, or sign a few, I don’t know that an edge player is a great option. I don’t believe in any of them to that level aside from Young who will be long gone. I think we might look at a corner like Fulton if the OL board is decimated and we cant trade out
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 20, 2020, 12:32:13 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 13, 2020, 06:15:00 PM
Quote
Regardless of your opinion of Darnold, drafting someone to replace him without
A) setting that rookie up to be able to achieve success
And/or
B) Seeing what the highly touted 3rd overall pick can actually do when he has teammates worthy of being in the NFL
Is malpractice.
Post by: Derek Smalls on September 13, 2020, 06:43:36 PM
If there is a quarterback we think is a can't-miss quarterback in the draft, and Darnold has a mediocre season, it will be hard to pass them up. Yes, you don't get the full picture of Darnold at the end of this season, but that's just another consequence of the poor development.
If we get the #1 pick, Trevor Lawrence is the pick. That will either have meant Darnold got hurt or sick or played poorly. Darnold would still be on the roster next season. We could either trade him right away, or we could keep him as the starter and tag-and-trade him after the season. We still would have a full complement of draft picks on top of that pick. Yes, there is a chance Darnold could break out in year 4 or later, but if he's bad enough where we get the #1 pick, the odds are stacked against it, and it happens elsewhere, we lost out. It still worked okay for the Chargers with Drew Brees and Philip Rivers.
Hopefully Darnold bounces back and shows he's the long-term answer. I still have faith. But it's not as steadfast as it was.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on September 13, 2020, 06:45:18 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on September 13, 2020, 06:47:08 PM
Maybe doing the same excrement with [next guy] as with Darnold isn't a good move.
Post by: Johnny English on September 13, 2020, 07:38:53 PM
You're correct that we've completely botched the development of Sam Darnold, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way.
If there is a quarterback we think is a can't-miss quarterback in the draft, and Darnold has a mediocre season, it will be hard to pass them up.
You mean someone like Sam Darnold? Or are we going to retcon this like we were all concerned about his turnover rate at USC and his age and he was a gamble all along?
The problem is not the players we draft, at QB or receiver or anything else. The problem is we draft young guys with talent and give them to bad coaches to ruin. Drafting a new QB next year without fixing the actual problem is like trying to stop the Titanic from sinking by replacing the deckchairs. And I'm not talking about Gase when I say "the actual problem". He's just the latest symptom.
Post by: Libero_2 on September 13, 2020, 07:57:51 PM
Post by: Badger on September 13, 2020, 08:05:01 PM
Assuming you mean the actual problem is the Johnson's, how do you propose we get rid of them?
Accuse them of child trafficking on Facebook and let the dumbest people you went to high school with take them down
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 05, 2020, 12:59:54 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2020, 01:25:24 PM
https://twitter.com/michaeldavsmith/status/1313157233027543040?s=21Running backs remain largely interchangeable.
This year is proving that as much as any other year. Yes, some are better than others, but blocking and scheme have so much to do with rushing success.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 05, 2020, 01:36:11 PM
Running backs remain largely interchangeable.
This year is proving that as much as any other year. Yes, some are better than others, but blocking and scheme have so much to do with rushing success.
I've always felt this way. There was a time when Denver had a different back every year and they always got over 1,000 yards.
Post by: MBGreen on October 05, 2020, 01:46:40 PM
I've always felt this way. There was a time when Denver had a different back every year and they always got over 1,000 yards.
that's because Mike Shanahan was a HB whisperer.
Post by: insanity on October 05, 2020, 01:52:28 PM
https://twitter.com/michaeldavsmith/status/1313157233027543040?s=21#DraftEtienne
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 05, 2020, 02:00:06 PM
that's because Mike Shanahan was a HB whisperer.
They had a line, a system, and didn't fire their coach after an 0-1 start.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 02:01:29 PM
RB is an extremely devalued position, but Etienne is a homerun threat in the run and pass games. I think he'll be a top fifteen pick...
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 02:02:31 PM
that's because Mike Shanahan was a HB whisperer.
Alex Gibbs was coaching the zone scheme before anyone else. Those same concepts are what Kyle Shanahan is using in San Francisco.
Post by: MBGreen on October 05, 2020, 02:23:16 PM
They had a line, a system, and didn't fire their coach after an 0-1 start.
Who's firing a coach after an 0-1 start?
if you're referring to Gase/Bowles/Rex...you're seeing what happens when you hang onto garbage for too long.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 05, 2020, 02:39:05 PM
Who's firing a coach after an 0-1 start?
if you're referring to Gase/Bowles/Rex...you're seeing what happens when you hang onto garbage for too long.
You want to fire every coach all the time, so it's just noise after a while. Most of them end up getting fired eventually, so if you wait long enough you can claim you were right.
Belichick was 6-14 at the same point in his second job as Gase is 7-13. I'm not saying Gase will be Belichick, but you'd have fired Belichick by the time he was 6-14, which is my point.
Post by: MBGreen on October 05, 2020, 02:42:56 PM
You want to fire every coach all the time, so it's just noise after a while. Most of them end up getting fired eventually, so if you wait long enough you can claim you were right.
Belichick was 6-14 at the same point in his second job as Gase is 7-13. I'm not saying Gase will be Belichick, but you'd have fired Belichick by the time he was 6-14, which is my point.
I want to fire incompetent coaches, which i've been right about thus far. Your problem is that, despite them being pieces of excrement you still want to keep them employed. As usual, you're in the wrong.
Belichick did get fired for doing a shitty job, was lucky enough to get a 2nd chance and obviously made the most of it. Unlike your buddy Rex, who made the same mistakes and pissed away his 2nd chance and coaching career in Buffalo.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2020, 03:38:13 PM
If Travis Etienne is on the board when we're on the clock with Seattle's pick, we should sprint to the podium.We finally have the means to build the roster up in important positions. After sinking so much money and draft capital into ILB and RB and safety and DT, I really hope we dont go right down that same path.
RB is an extremely devalued position, but Etienne is a homerun threat in the run and pass games. I think he'll be a top fifteen pick...
Etienne would improve the offense but give me a guard or WR over Etienne with that pick. Or an edge rusher or a CB.
I could change my mind because Etienne is a stud but I feel like thats going right back down the same path that got us into trouble in the first place.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 03:39:52 PM
Etienne would improve the offense but give me a guard or WR over Etienne with that pick. Or an edge rusher or a CB.
I'd take Etienne over any receiver aside from Chase/Waddle/Moore. Those WR prospects should be gone by the end of the first.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 05, 2020, 05:39:23 PM
We finally have the means to build the roster up in important positions. After sinking so much money and draft capital into ILB and RB and safety and DT, I really hope we dont go right down that same path.
Etienne would improve the offense but give me a guard or WR over Etienne with that pick. Or an edge rusher or a CB.
I could change my mind because Etienne is a stud but I feel like thats going right back down the same path that got us into trouble in the first place.
We need anybody who can make plays with the ball in his hands because we have basically none of those guys.
Ideally I want to be picking 3rd or 4th snag Jamarr Chase and then grab a guy like Creed Humphrey or Wyatt Davis to hopefully complete the interior OL. But if Etienne is still around we should be seriously considering that home run threat. We haven’t had a guy who could do the things he can do in my lifetime at the RB spot.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 05:48:16 PM
We can't keep hoping that Darnold will become a franchise quarterback.
This roster is awful. Great coaching could milk a few more wins out of it, but we aren't ready to compete for the playoffs yet. Getting a fresh start at QB with cap control at the position puts us in a spot to spend big on other positions like EDGE, CB, WR, and OL.
We'd also have three other firsts to use on playmakers and/or premium positions.
---
If Sam's shoulder is good enough to go, then best case scenario is that he turns it on and proves he belongs...but until then, #1 should be the goal.
Post by: casman02 on October 05, 2020, 05:57:04 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 06:03:22 PM
If the season ended tomorrow and the Jets ended up with the number 2 overall pick (out of Lawrence range) is the only QB yall would take Lawrence? I am not sold on Fields or Lance so would rather roll into next year with a Chase/Darnold combo and see how the crop looks the following year if it hits the fans again
I would take Penei Sewell if we had the second overall pick. At QB, I'd sign a legitimate veteran QB option and consider taking someone like Kyle Trask at the backend of the first round to compete with Sam Darnold.
If we end up with a Top 5 pick, we can't go into 2021 with Sam Darnold as our surefire starter. There has to be a competition.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 05, 2020, 06:04:00 PM
If the season ended tomorrow and the Jets ended up with the number 2 overall pick (out of Lawrence range) is the only QB yall would take Lawrence? I am not sold on Fields or Lance so would rather roll into next year with a Chase/Darnold combo and see how the crop looks the following year if it hits the fans again
I personally wouldn’t roll with Fields or Lance over Sam.
I’m not comfortable with Lance for a number of reasons, most notably that I think he is so young and the competition jump will be so great I expect he needs the bench more than any top QB prospect in recent memory other than Love. If he is coming here with a top 5-10 pick, Sam is being cast aside and a Lance will be starting very soon and I don’t think that’s going to end well for him.
I am not sure about Fields. I know he’s got game and is more ready than Lance right now, but I’m not sure he’s better than Sam as a QB option. The most attractive things about him would be he resets the cheap QB window and the new coach would have to love the guy to take him at #2. Is his long term potential better than Sam’s? I’m not exactly qualified to say. But I’d bet some people would agree and others wouldn’t. Now if Sam is broken then Fields is obviously the better call. But if our new coach would rather work with Sam I wouldn’t be surprised about it
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 06:09:41 PM
There's also Tanner Morgan and Dustin Crum that could be had in the second.
If we miss out on Lawrence, I still think this team needs to consider a quarterback in the first few rounds.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 06:12:17 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2020, 06:18:56 PM
If we don't get the top pick, we need to heavily consider whatever QB falls to the bottom of the first. Whether it's Kyle Trask or Kenny PickettWe just took a 4th-rd QB this year. He can't beat out White Mike.
There's also Tanner Morgan and Dustin Crum that could be had in the second.
If we miss out on Lawrence, I still think this team needs to consider a quarterback in the first few rounds.
That said, I dont disagree.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 06:25:03 PM
We just took a 4th-rd QB this year. He can't beat out White Mike.
That said, I dont disagree.
Not sure why you are so fixated on James Morgan. He was clearly drafted to be a developmental backup quarterback.
It sucks that the Bills drafted Gabriel Davis a few picks later. Get over it.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 05, 2020, 06:25:23 PM
Reasons I get it:
1. If you don’t have the guy (or aren’t sure) you need to keep taking stabs until you get the guy.
Reasons I don’t agree:
1. If we aren’t taking a top prospect to replace Sam then we are taking a project guy, and with whatever high to moderately high pick we could continue to build an awful roster
2. We’ve seen it before, if after 2021 Sam isn’t the guy (for sure) and we are in position to take a top prospect I don’t want anybody saying “yeah but project guy B showed promise I think he can be the guy” hello Geno Smith and Christian Hackenberg
3. With 2 1s in 2021 to use as ammo to go get a QB if we need to, I’d rather get more youth on the team in 2020 outside of the QB so that if we need to go get one in 2021, those guys already have some experience and can help the rookie out.
4.im tired of the second class QBs, either go get “the guy” or save your bullets until you are ready to do that.
5. Drafting another guy makes the James Morgan pick useless. Now if he proves he isn’t an NFL guy, then go correct the mistake. But if he can be an NFL backup and possibly more with proper development, I’d rather not take another QB who in all likelihood would be a fringe starter/quality backup kinda guy.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 05, 2020, 06:26:55 PM
Drafting another guy makes the James Morgan pick useless. Now if he proves he isn’t an NFL guy, then go correct the mistake. But if he can be an NFL backup and possibly more with proper development, I’d rather not take another QB who in all likelihood would be a fringe starter/quality backup kinda guy.
If we draft a player in the first or second round, and he can't beat out James Morgan, then we have bigger problems to worry about.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 05, 2020, 06:45:51 PM
If we draft a player in the first or second round, and he can't beat out James Morgan, then we have bigger problems to worry about.
That’s not what I was implying. The role of Morgan is to become a backup QB. Let’s just pretend he meets that mark for a second
If new guy drafted between 25-60 Is drafted we hope he can become a viable Top 10 starter, but is a project at best. If he wasn’t then he wouldn’t be going that low. Now you have Sam and new guy competing, my guess is if we want to develop new guy properly Sam keeps his job as starter, and new guy holds clipboard for year one and Morgan is now QB 3.
Fast forward to 2022 draft. Sam has presumably failed, we might see some of new guy we might not have much of an idea what we have. We are picking top 10. Chances are we are looking at top QBs again. Are we passing on one in favor of the guy we drafted a year ago who might not be the guy? I’d say no, let’s take “the guy” and now we have Morgan and 2021 new guy who are competing to be backups, Sam is gone and 2022 top prospect is “our guy”
To me that just feels like wasted picks in either Morgan or 2021 guy or both. The only way that works out is if 2021 guy shows right away he’s a quality starter and not only keeps us from thinking we might need a QB and keeps us out of position for one. Given the guy isn’t expected to be a strong starter day 1 thats a lot to expect of a Late 1-2 Nd round QB
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 05, 2020, 06:55:11 PM
If Sam remains inconsistent at the end of the season, we need to bring in competition. Whether that's signing a veteran like Foles or [insert player here] or drafting someone in the first three rounds, he needs competition.
Maybe the FO thinks Morgan is ready to be a part of that competition next year. Then maybe the veteran move would make more sense. But the bottom line is we need to find a quarterback. We need a lot of things on this roster, but it all starts at quarterback.
Post by: AlioTheFool on October 05, 2020, 08:22:10 PM
Sign a FA QB for competition, and use the draft to bring in OL, WR, EDGE and CB. Build a foundation, let Sam do with it what he will, and when the roster is filled out, use whatever ammo you have to draft a QB to use it (assuming Darnold doesn't "figure it out" in the meantime)
I feel like I've been advocating for the above forever, but I still believe it's the best way to build a club
Post by: delavan on October 05, 2020, 08:24:51 PM
Alex Gibbs was coaching the zone scheme before anyone else. Those same concepts are what Kyle Shanahan is using in San Francisco.Nice call. https://www.sbnation.com/2014/7/25/5928877/alex-gibbs-seahawks-broncos-texans-nfl-zone-blocking
Post by: SixFeetDeep on October 11, 2020, 05:03:59 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on October 11, 2020, 05:11:16 PM
We should trade Marcus Maye, Jamison Crowder, Le’Veon Bell, Jordan Jenkins, Avery Williamson etc. but I don’t expect us to do anything significant at the deadline
I would put everyone but Crowder on that list. He's one of the few guys on this offense I hope to see back next year. Put him with some decent weapons outside and he'd be an exceptional safety valve.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 05:28:28 PM
We should trade Marcus Maye, Jamison Crowder, Le’Veon Bell, Jordan Jenkins, Avery Williamson etc. but I don’t expect us to do anything significant at the deadline
Why does everyone on this board continually think that the way to get better is to trade our best players for picks with which we can take players who are invariably not better?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:32:00 PM
Why does everyone on this board continually think that the way to get better is to trade our best players for picks with which we can take players who are invariably not better?
Aside from Crowder, the rest of those guys are useless.
Maye, Jenkins, and Williamson are all free agents after this season too. None of them should be re-signed at this point.
Bell should be released ASAP. Overpaid, washed up, and not worth the potential headache.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 11, 2020, 05:32:51 PM
Why does everyone on this board continually think that the way to get better is to trade our best players for picks with which we can take players who are invariably not better?
The only one on that list under contract next year is Crowder, and at this point the only 2 i'd expect we try and bring back are Maye and Crowder.
If we can acquire any assets, then we should within reason try to, especially for guys that won't be here next year regardless.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 05:34:56 PM
Aside from Crowder, the rest of those guys are useless.
Maye, Jenkins, and Williamson are all free agents after this season too. None of them should be re-signed at this point.
Bell should be released ASAP. Overpaid, washed up, and not worth the potential headache.
Exactly who are you planning on replacing them with that's better? And don't tell me draft picks because they're universally freaking not.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:38:01 PM
Exactly who are you planning on replacing them with that's better? And don't tell me draft picks because they're universally freaking not.
If we can get draft picks for expiring contracts, it makes sense. We have a ton of cap space too. We can fill these NON-PREMIUM positions with street free agents and get similar production.
Bryce Huff, an undrafted free agent, is already just as productive as Jordan Jenkins.
We could put a traffic cone at linebacker and he'd be just as good as a post injury Avery Williamson.
McDougald and Maye are both finally losing snaps to Ashtyn Davis. Hopefully he can be a starter at safety for us in 2021. Maye and McDougald were both atrocious today.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 05:40:13 PM
McDougald and Maye are both finally losing snaps to Ashtyn Davis. Hopefully he can be a starter at safety for us in 2021. Maye and McDougald were both atrocious today.
Maybe we can trade him plus a couple of picks for some kind of elite safety, let me think about a name for a minute
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:42:11 PM
Maybe we can trade him plus a couple of picks for some kind of elite safety, let me think about a name for a minute
Jamal Adams has been awful in coverage for Seattle. He pulled his groin because he spends most games chasing down the players that are burning him.
We got multiple premium picks for a non-premium position.
Adams doesn't make this team any better in 2020. We're still winless with that crybaby out there rushing the passer.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 05:44:36 PM
Jamal Adams has been awful in coverage for Seattle. He pulled his groin because he spends most games chasing down the players that are burning him.
We got multiple premium picks for a non-premium position.
Adams doesn't make this team any better in 2020. We're still winless with that crybaby out there rushing the passer.
Maybe but we're not losing every game by an average margin of almost 20 points.
I swear you get more excited about kids in suits than adults in pads.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:46:26 PM
Maybe but we're not losing every game by an average margin of almost 20 points.
A loss is a loss.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 11, 2020, 05:52:33 PM
Maybe but we're not losing every game by an average margin of almost 20 points.
I swear you get more excited about kids in suits than adults in pads.
Because our adults in pads are not worth watching after week 7. The kids in suits we can be excited about all year.
If Jamal Adams makes us 5 ppg better on defense (which is freaking ridiculous to think a safety could do that on his own) that would put us at 27.2 ppg allowed. Our offense has scored 27 1 time, and it was in large part thanks to a defensive TD last week against Denver. So chances are we are still 0-5, have a bottom 3 defense in football and have a malcontent who is bitching up a storm at every opportunity and when we finally move him at the deadline, we get less than 1/3 the price we actually got for him.
Adams did NOT WANT TO BE HERE ANYMORE. We got more for him than any player in franchise history, and having him would not change out record significantly right now, if at all in the season.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 05:56:00 PM
Because our adults in pads are not worth watching after week 7. The kids in suits we can be excited about all year.
No. You get excited about the idea of the adults in pads that the kids in suits could be, but invariably aren't.
This franchise is freaking rotten right now, from the very top all the way down through its core. The production on the field isn't the cause of the rot, it's the symptom. You can keep changing the players all you like but the results will continue to be as rotten, because they aren't the problem.
Jamal brought the sort of mentality that fixes the rot. He's a winner. He doesn't tolerate excrement like Gase. Douglas treated the symptom, not the illness.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:56:42 PM
No. You get excited about the idea of the adults in pads that the kids in suits could be, but invariably aren't.
This reads like an Italian Seafood post
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:57:03 PM
He's a winner.
No, he's not. He was a gigantic loser.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:58:03 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 05:59:08 PM
Mekhi Becton looks like a great pick so far. We need more hits like that.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 05:59:59 PM
This reads like an Italian Seafood post
Sorry to have to bring you a dose of Jets reality. Who was the last great draft pick that was a success at the Jets?
It doesn't matter who we pick. We'll poison them. If they're lucky they escape in time to actually succeed at a team that understands the difference between its arse and its elbow.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 06:00:30 PM
Who was the last great draft pick that was a success at the Jets?
Mekhi Becton
Just a kid in a suit that I was excited about at one point
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 06:01:53 PM
Mekhi Becton
Just a kid in a suit that I was excited about at one point
LOL, 2.5 games in and you're calling him a great draft pick who has been a success at the Jets? The fact that you chose him answers the question perfectly.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 11, 2020, 06:02:46 PM
He's a great player, don't get me wrong. But the Seahawks defense has been garbage with Adams and garbage without Adams. You could argue that paying a safety the money that Adams wants isn't a good idea. I would have happily done it, but when the alternative involves two 1st-round picks and another premium pick, it's a no-brainer.
I don't care that the Jets have drafted poorly in the past. That is a loser mentality, thinking that just because you drafted poorly in the past that you will continue to draft poorly. If you don't draft well, you're not going to win in this league. But you have to keep taking swings.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 11, 2020, 06:06:30 PM
No. You get excited about the idea of the adults in pads that the kids in suits could be, but invariably aren't.
Which is why I get excited about those kids the next year. Because they COULD be good, when clearly we are freaking not. That's holding on to hope
Post by: Libero_2 on October 11, 2020, 06:08:04 PM
Adams isn't a winner or a loser. That's a stupid argument. Whining after losses doesn't make you more of a winner than your teammates.
He's a great player, don't get me wrong. But the Seahawks defense has been garbage with Adams and garbage without Adams. You could argue that paying a safety the money that Adams wants isn't a good idea. I would have happily done it, but when the alternative involves two 1st-round picks and another premium pick, it's a no-brainer.
I don't care that the Jets have drafted poorly in the past. That is a loser mentality, thinking that just because you drafted poorly in the past that you will continue to draft poorly. If you don't draft well, you're not going to win in this league. But you have to keep taking swings.
This right here. If you are going to assume we will continue to suck at drafting, you might as well give up and not waste your time with this franchise. It's the only real chance we will have of being good
Post by: Libero_2 on October 11, 2020, 06:09:35 PM
LOL, 2.5 games in and you're calling him a great draft pick who has been a success at the Jets? The fact that you chose him answers the question perfectly.
He picked Becton for 2 reasons.
1. He was Joe Douglas first draft pick. You know the guy who is drafting right now.
2. Prior to injury he was performing as an already elite LT in this game.
The answer you wanted, was either Darrelle Revis, David Harris, D'Brickashaw Ferguson or Nick Mangold.
But it no longer matters who Terry Bradway, Mike Tannenbaum, John Idzik or Mike Maccagnan drafted, or would have drafted.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 11, 2020, 06:15:28 PM
Mekhi Becton
Just a kid in a suit that I was excited about at one point
The dude hasn't even played every game this season.
Douglas improved the OT position this year. That's it. He can't fix the whole roster but he's made some derriere decisions.
Post by: MBGreen on October 11, 2020, 06:29:35 PM
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 06:33:06 PM
People still whining about Jamal lol
People still thinking April more important than October lol
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 11, 2020, 06:36:00 PM
People still whining about Jamal lol
I don't give a freak about Jamal at this point.
This team is worse than it was last season. You can keep saying that he wasn't going to fix the roster in one off-season but he hasn't permanently fixed a single position and Gase may have ruined the potential franchise left tackle. Right now the most useful draft pick from Douglas might have been the punter.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 11, 2020, 06:42:48 PM
Zuniga, Clark, Davis, Mims, Hall, Huff, JFM. How many of these guys can be legitimate starters for next year and the year after? Then the next two years, we have a chance to really reshape our roster through the draft.
Post by: MBGreen on October 11, 2020, 06:43:57 PM
People still thinking April more important than October lolImagine thinking a SS wouldve made difference on this team.....
Jamal missed the last 2 games in Seattle...they're still 4-0. How could that be? Lol
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 06:45:43 PM
Imagine thinking a SS wouldve made difference on this team.....
Jamal missed the last 2 games in Seattle...they're still 4-0. How could that be? Lol
You're right, our defense looks like it hasn't missed a beat from last year.
Post by: Libero_2 on October 11, 2020, 06:47:09 PM
You're right, our defense looks like it hasn't missed a beat from last year.
I'm seriously curious about this.
What would you opinion be if Jamal had us giving up 27 ppg (5 ppg better than right now) and was bitching in the media after every single loss as we are still 0-5?
Post by: MBGreen on October 11, 2020, 06:48:40 PM
You're right, our defense looks like it hasn't missed a beat from last year.Hes not enough to move the needle. Sorry.
Post by: Johnny English on October 11, 2020, 06:50:54 PM
I'm seriously curious about this.
What would you opinion be if Jamal had us giving up 27 ppg (5 ppg better than right now) and was bitching in the media after every single loss as we are still 0-5?
That's a completely hypothetical scenario as it requires me to accept the existence of two simultaneous but differing realities in order to compare them, but in your hypothetical multiverse world it sounds like he's making a difference and he's right to be bitching about the offense and the entire coaching staff failing the club.
In real world, if that happened I'd likely be every bit as pissed at the entire coaching staff as I am today, but at least I'd have a bit more freaking belief in the defense.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2020, 07:09:05 PM
If anything, Jamal still being here may have made it more difficult for us to obtain the #1 pick. I get that that's an extremely negative outlook to have but, given the current state of this roster, obtaining the #1 pick is the best possible outcome for this team.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2020, 07:25:38 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2020, 07:30:01 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 11, 2020, 07:33:50 PM
now seeing the state of this team, i have absolutely zero qualms with the trade. he was/is an amazing player and we're a better team with him for sure, but he doesn't change anything for us this year and it was a long shot for him to decide to stay with us in the future. we have glaring holes EVERYWHERE except maybe for tackle.
we got a premium back in the deal. seattle way overpaid and now we have extra picks in the upcoming two drafts to try and fix all of the glaring holes on this roster
we literally need talent at EVERY position. we got more value back in this deal than jamal was worth. take the picks and move on, and try to build a better team/roster within the next couple of seasons with all of those assets.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 11, 2020, 07:42:59 PM
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2020, 07:43:14 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on October 11, 2020, 07:52:39 PM
As difficult as it is, we have to start over. That means disposing of any players that don't factor into the long-term picture here and obtaining as many draft picks as possible. If we get the #1 pick and trade Darnold, we'll likely have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. Between our cap space and draft capital, we'll likely have the opportunity to draft a generational QB prospect in Trevor Lawrence and IMMEDIATELY surround him with talent (something we unfortunately weren't able to do for Darnold). This should hopefully allow us to attract a decent coaching staff as well.
it also looks like well have the two tackle spots at the least lined up for next year's QB, be it darnold or not.
we need to go heavy on IOL. alex lewis is so bad. GVR is rotten
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2020, 07:52:52 PM
I think we're set up better than people think to land a premier coaching staff this offseason, particularly with Douglas still having respect in league circles.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 11, 2020, 07:52:57 PM
As difficult as it is, we have to start over. That means disposing of any players that don't factor into the long-term picture here and obtaining as many draft picks as possible. If we get the #1 pick and trade Darnold, we'll likely have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. Between our cap space and draft capital, we'll likely have the opportunity to draft a generational QB prospect in Trevor Lawrence and IMMEDIATELY surround him with talent (something we unfortunately weren't able to do for Darnold). This should hopefully allow us to attract a decent coaching staff as well.We aren't getting the number 1 pick. Gase sucks too much at everything, even tanking. We'll accidentally win 2 games, thats all it'll take.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2020, 07:55:03 PM
We aren't getting the number 1 pick. Gase sucks too much at everything, even tanking. We'll accidentally win 2 games, thats all it'll take.
Keep the faith.
Post by: bojanglesman on October 11, 2020, 07:56:49 PM
Keep the faith.We are the worst team in the league, but proving it with wins/losses is hard.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 11, 2020, 08:10:28 PM
Chicago's a mess.
Chicago is 4-1.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on October 11, 2020, 09:31:17 PM
Chicago is 4-1.
Come on. They barely beat Detroit, Atlanta, the Giants (three of the worst teams in the league), and Tampa Bay in a fluky game on a short week. Their quarterback situation is a mess and they don't appear to be coached very well. Their record is a mirage.
Thank you for completely missing the point of my post.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 11, 2020, 09:32:24 PM
Be real. They barely beat Detroit, Atlanta, and the Giants (three of the worst teams in the league) and Tampa Bay by 1 point in a fluky game on a short week. Their quarterback situation is a mess and they aren't coached very well. Their record is a mirage.
Thank you for completely missing the point of my post.
THE BEARS ARE WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE!!!
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2020, 10:22:38 AM
Trading for Matt Ryan makes sense in both situations actually. A proven veteran that can push Sam or start over Lawrence for a while.
Post by: mj2sexay on October 12, 2020, 10:26:57 AM
Philadelphia, if they fire Pederson, would likely be our chief competition.
If that's the case though, it wouldn't matter if Philly was our biggest competition because we'd have to vacuum the dust trail left by Douglas and the Johnson's to go get him.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 12, 2020, 10:35:49 AM
Draft Trevor Lawrence, trade for Matt Ryan, and then ship Sam out for best possible return in draft capitol. Best case QB scenario (unless Sam comes back and plays us out of the #1 pick).
Trading for Matt Ryan makes sense in both situations actually. A proven veteran that can push Sam or start over Lawrence for a while.
What do you think the Falcons are going to be looking for in terms of compensation?
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2020, 11:36:39 AM
What do you think the Falcons are going to be looking for in terms of compensation?
No idea, but his contract is awful and the new coaching staff and general manager will likely be looking to move on.
A mid-rounder would likely get it done.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 12, 2020, 12:45:23 PM
And if we draft Lawrence, we play Lawrence right away unless he is somehow a disaster.
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2020, 12:48:59 PM
I don't see how Matt Ryan makes much sense. If we trade for Ryan, it doesn't make a lot of sense to keep Darnold.
If we don't have the #1 pick in 2021 and we go into the season with a broken Sam Darnold and James Morgan at QB, we might not win a game for two straight seasons.
Matt Ryan is good enough to come in and beat Darnold in a QB competition.
I'd much rather pay a proven veteran like Ryan than sign someone like Joe Flacco again.
We have to create competition at the position if Trevor Lawrence is not our QB.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 12, 2020, 12:49:31 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on October 12, 2020, 12:52:07 PM
No one is going to trade for a QB who just led their team to the #1 overall pick now that the Dolphins have Fitz and drafted Tua.
I do think we could get at least a second for Sam, especially from someone like Washington or San Francisco.
But what Miami is doing is smart. Bringing in a hold the fort veteran until the team around the QB is ready to roll makes all the sense in the world for very bad teams.
I get that Cincinnati didn't do it with Joe Burrow, but we'll have to see how that works out.
Post by: CatoTheElder on October 12, 2020, 01:02:14 PM
I do think we could get at least a second for Sam, especially from someone like Washington or San Francisco.
All those franchises have are question marks on the roster at QB, I don't see them spending that much to bring in another, broken QB (your words). I'd be elated if they were that dumb but I'd expect to see those teams to spend that pick on another QB prospect if they're not looking for one in the first. If they are trying to draft one in the first then why would they spend a second rounder on one that by definition isn't supposed to be the guy?
Quote
But what Miami is doing is smart. Bringing in a hold the fort veteran until the team around the QB is ready to roll makes all the sense in the world for very bad teams.
I get that Cincinnati didn't do it with Joe Burrow, but we'll have to see how that works out.
This is the exactly how I want to handle the next season. I just think we can get a stop gap QB without having to trade for one.
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 12, 2020, 01:08:06 PM
I do think we could get at least a second for Sam, especially from someone like Washington or San Francisco.I think Tua is a different case since he had a horrible injury in college. In general, I think young quarterbacks need to play. I used to think otherwise, but now I want to get them on the field unless there is a good reason not to.
But what Miami is doing is smart. Bringing in a hold the fort veteran until the team around the QB is ready to roll makes all the sense in the world for very bad teams.
I get that Cincinnati didn't do it with Joe Burrow, but we'll have to see how that works out.
I just think Matt Ryan is a little too good to play the Foles/Fitzpatrick role. If we bring in Matt Ryan, it's to replace Sam Darnold as a stopgap for 1-3 years as opposed to competing with Sam Darnold. I'm not necessarily opposed to trading a 3rd for Ryan and trading Darnold for a 3rd to get it back, but if we trade for Ryan, I don't think keeping Darnold makes sense. If the Jets don't think Darnold is the guy but can't get Lawrence, this is a viable strategy in the short term.
And if we draft Trevor Lawrence, I would rather use the extra draft picks to get additional talent around Lawrence rather than bring in someone to bridge the gap at QB. Give me a 3rd-round CB or OG or WR or RB instead of another QB.
Post by: Italian Seafood on October 12, 2020, 01:19:50 PM
Post by: MBGreen on October 12, 2020, 01:29:15 PM
Why not just keep Flacco for the Foles/Fitzpatrick role? He's probably not going somewhere else to start.
There's plenty of season left for the GaseEyeLasers to finish Flacco for good.
Post by: Badger on October 12, 2020, 09:06:32 PM
But what Miami is doing is smart. Bringing in a hold the fort veteran until the team around the QB is ready to roll makes all the sense in the world for very bad teams.
Well clearly this was the plan with Fitz and Hackenb- hahahahaha
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 10, 2020, 01:17:43 PM
QUARTERBACK
- Will likely draft a new starter. Morgan/White can take one QB spot while a veteran like Flacco can be the other backup. Maybe Darnold surprises and keeps his job.
RUNNING BACK
- Need to completely overhaul this group. Perine is a complimentary back. Need a new 1A running back and probably a 3rd RB as well. Perine looks like an NFL player, but I think I like him most as an RB3.
WIDE RECEIVER
- Mims and Crowder are 2/3rds of a decent corps. Need another outside WR badly. Perriman finally has shown flashes now that he's healthy. I'd be fine with Perriman and a high draft pick filling out the other outside WR spot. I think Perriman is a very good deep threat, but you can't count on his health.
TIGHT END
- Could definitely use an upgrade. However, I don't think it's a disaster to go into next year with Griffin/Herndon/Wesco, so this could maybe be put off another year.
OFFENSIVE LINE
- Has looked a lot better the last couple weeks. We badly need an upgrade at one of the interior OL spots if not two of them. Outside of that, I'm fine bringing back the other 3-4 starters and keeping some continuity. Hopefully, Cam Clark can claim one of those spots.
DEFENSIVE LINE
- Between Quinnen and Foley, our interior DL looks like a major strength going forward. One of the few positions of strength on the roster. Could maybe use another rotational DE, but overall, this is the biggest strength of the roster.
LINEBACKER
- May need to be completely overhauled. Mosley will take one ILB spot. Hewitt/Cashman could compete for one ILB spot, but you can't count on Cashman's health, and Hewitt is a JAG. That said, we can maybe wait one year on addressing ILB if other needs take priority. OLB is a bigger need with Jenkins one a one-year deal and Basham being a JAG.
CORNERBACK
- TBD. Bless Austin looks like a decent starter on one side. Maybe Bryce Hall or Lamar Jackson can show enough where they can compete for the CB2 spot next year. More likely, we desperately need to address one of the outside CB spots to shore up the position.
SAFETY
- If Marcus Maye is resigned, we should be set at the starting spot. A little too early to count on Ashtyn as the starter, but last week was very promising, and we have to hope that by next offseason, we can write Davis in as a starter in pen.
We still have a lot of needs on this team, but if we can address the following positions, we should be able to take a major step forward.
- Head coach
- Quarterback
- Running back
- WR1
- OG
- OLB
- CB
It sounds like a lot, but we have a ton of picks and a ton of cap space to address some of these needs.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 10, 2020, 01:51:20 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on November 10, 2020, 01:53:29 PM
Joe Thuney has to be towards the top of JD's wishlist again.
The defense can take a backseat. He can't lose another franchise quarterback due to poor coaching and an awful supporting cast.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 10, 2020, 02:10:08 PM
Post by: Johnny English on November 10, 2020, 02:37:29 PM
SAFETY
- If Marcus Maye is resigned, we should be set at the starting spot. A little too early to count on Ashtyn as the starter, but last week was very promising, and we have to hope that by next offseason, we can write Davis in as a starter in pen.
Assume you mean last night rather than last week, because last week at KC he got absolutely schooled.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 10, 2020, 02:39:48 PM
Assume you mean last night rather than last week, because last week at KC he got absolutely schooled.
Everyone gets schooled by Kansas City
Post by: MBGreen on November 10, 2020, 03:28:10 PM
Assume you mean last night rather than last week, because last week at KC he got absolutely schooled.
He's a 3rd round rookie with 3 starts under his belt. Maybe settle down a smidge.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 10, 2020, 06:26:26 PM
So let's take a quick look at the roster for next year
QUARTERBACK
- Will likely draft a new starter. Morgan/White can take one QB spot while a veteran like Flacco can be the other backup. Maybe Darnold surprises and keeps his job.
RUNNING BACK
- Need to completely overhaul this group. Perine is a complimentary back. Need a new 1A running back and probably a 3rd RB as well. Perine looks like an NFL player, but I think I like him most as an RB3.
WIDE RECEIVER
- Mims and Crowder are 2/3rds of a decent corps. Need another outside WR badly. Perriman finally has shown flashes now that he's healthy. I'd be fine with Perriman and a high draft pick filling out the other outside WR spot. I think Perriman is a very good deep threat, but you can't count on his health.
TIGHT END
- Could definitely use an upgrade. However, I don't think it's a disaster to go into next year with Griffin/Herndon/Wesco, so this could maybe be put off another year.
OFFENSIVE LINE
- Has looked a lot better the last couple weeks. We badly need an upgrade at one of the interior OL spots if not two of them. Outside of that, I'm fine bringing back the other 3-4 starters and keeping some continuity. Hopefully, Cam Clark can claim one of those spots.
DEFENSIVE LINE
- Between Quinnen and Foley, our interior DL looks like a major strength going forward. One of the few positions of strength on the roster. Could maybe use another rotational DE, but overall, this is the biggest strength of the roster.
LINEBACKER
- May need to be completely overhauled. Mosley will take one ILB spot. Hewitt/Cashman could compete for one ILB spot, but you can't count on Cashman's health, and Hewitt is a JAG. That said, we can maybe wait one year on addressing ILB if other needs take priority. OLB is a bigger need with Jenkins one a one-year deal and Basham being a JAG.
CORNERBACK
- TBD. Bless Austin looks like a decent starter on one side. Maybe Bryce Hall or Lamar Jackson can show enough where they can compete for the CB2 spot next year. More likely, we desperately need to address one of the outside CB spots to shore up the position.
SAFETY
- If Marcus Maye is resigned, we should be set at the starting spot. A little too early to count on Ashtyn as the starter, but last week was very promising, and we have to hope that by next offseason, we can write Davis in as a starter in pen.
We still have a lot of needs on this team, but if we can address the following positions, we should be able to take a major step forward.
- Head coach
- Quarterback
- Running back
- WR1
- OG
- OLB
- CB
It sounds like a lot, but we have a ton of picks and a ton of cap space to address some of these needs.
If we take Trevor Lawrence, Joe Douglas needs to do absolutely everything he can to surround him with weapons and protection. We need to sign multiple starters in free agency and draft two to three skill players early.
Joe Thuney has to be towards the top of JD's wishlist again.
The defense can take a backseat. He can't lose another franchise quarterback due to poor coaching and an awful supporting cast.
My master offseason plan looks more or less like this, wishlist player in parentheses
Cut Alex Lewis, Henry Anderson (in total saves about $13.6 million)
Prioritize the following positions in FA: OG (Thuney), WR (Allen Robinson), TE (Jonnu Smith), RB (Starting Caliber), CB (mid-tier starter), LB (mid-tier starter, likely a cut for cap purposes), Edge (Judon, Kerrigan, Ingram, Barrett, Dupree, Ngakoue are all good options in the upper mid - elite money group)
Then we obviously need a boatload of depth pieces for low level salaries. I would imagine we probably sign 11-13 total FA's. Spending the bulk of our money on Thuney and a top tier X like Robinson or edge like Ngakoue or Barrett.
In the draft, Lawrence is obviously the golden ticket, then I would love to see us grab a sliding weapon like Waddle or an interior OL like Trey Smith late in round 1/top of round 2. We need to add an RB somewhere on Day 2 IMO and then round out the draft adding depth to our defense. That's honestly the weakest unit depth wise, and acquiring so many starters via FA on offense and early in the draft allows us to spend our later round picks bolstering depth at LB, CD, Edge and anywhere else we might need it.
Post by: bojanglesman on November 21, 2020, 07:42:48 AM
[
: @dpshow]https://t.co/zF9GZtoj4o
Post by: d sw0rdz on November 21, 2020, 09:23:45 AM
Daniel Jeremiah [@MoveTheSticks] with a ringing endorsement for the the #Jets future. He sees the key young pieces. The 2nd most Cap Space in #NFL . All the Draft Picks. The future is bright Jets fans, just hang in there a little bit longer.
[
https://t.co/zF9GZtoj4o
i think this is just smoke up the derriere. he has to support a close friend/colleague in JD
Post by: bojanglesman on November 21, 2020, 09:38:28 AM
i think this is just smoke up the derriere. he has to support a close friend/colleague in JDMaybe. But the point is that the Jets are set up to rebuild, and HC prospects notice that. As a HC, you can come in here with a gun full of ammo and a virtual clean slate regarding roster. There won't be any tearing down left to do. Almost no having to work with players you had dumped in your lap.
The one good thing Gase did was chase off Duff, thereby giving the Jets 2 years to burn it down and cycle out bad contracts. Maybe that wasn't intentional, but that's what happened. After the season is over and obvious roster clearing is done, it will be burnt down and cleaned out. There aren't too many situations as attractive as the Jets right now for a new HC. Lots of draft picks, probably #1 overal to take the best QB in a long time to come out, lots of cap space, rookie contract QB to leverage the rest of the team, minimal dead weight players leftover. Fresh clay to mold it your way. If you want a clean slate, this is the definition. Maybe some coaches might prefer a place with a franchise QB in place already. I could see that.
The 2 wildcards are ownership and whether Douglas is good at his job. I hope we get to hang our hat on Douglas picking his guy because we know the Johnsons' track record.
Post by: Libero_2 on November 21, 2020, 11:31:35 AM
Daniel Jeremiah [@MoveTheSticks] with a ringing endorsement for the the #Jets future. He sees the key young pieces. The 2nd most Cap Space in #NFL . All the Draft Picks. The future is bright Jets fans, just hang in there a little bit longer.
[
https://t.co/zF9GZtoj4o
Very interesting take by DJ. He feels certain we get #1, he feels that we can trade Sam and “strongly believes” we will get a 1 for him. Thinks Becton will be the best OT in the league in the next 2-3 years and that Mims is going to be one of the best #2 WRs in the game. With 4 picks in the top 33 (with the Sam trade), it’s got a shot to be a quick rebuild.
Damn that’s some serious positivity DJ. We can only hope
Post by: bojanglesman on November 21, 2020, 02:37:08 PM
Very interesting take by DJ. He feels certain we get #1, he feels that we can trade Sam and “strongly believes” we will get a 1 for him. Thinks Becton will be the best OT in the league in the next 2-3 years and that Mims is going to be one of the best #2 WRs in the game. With 4 picks in the top 33 (with the Sam trade), it’s got a shot to be a quick rebuild.All hinges on hiring the right coach and Douglas drafting well. Could go either way.
Damn that’s some serious positivity DJ. We can only hope
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 21, 2020, 02:49:14 PM
All hinges on hiring the right coach and Douglas drafting well. Could go either way.Just like always.
The Dolphins completely stripped their roster and looked like they were tanking 14 months ago. Now, they are likely going to make the playoffs.
With a good offseason and a good coaching hire, the Jets can do what the Dolphins did. Maybe it takes one extra year. But the NFL is a quick turnaround league, and we have the cap space and draft capital to overhaul our roster. Just gotta bring in the right guys.
I understand being pessimistic about the Jets bringing in the right guys. But you also can't blame Joe Douglas for the mistakes of Idzik and Maccagnan and Tannenbaum and Bradway and everyone else. His first draft looks good, but it's very early. His first free agency class doesn't, but he almost purely bargain shopped for 1-year deals, so the jury is still out.
You have to hope Douglas drafts well, and he helps bring in a good coach. And if he doesn't, we can fire him and start over again.
Post by: Italian Seafood on November 22, 2020, 02:43:33 AM
Just like always.
The Dolphins completely stripped their roster and looked like they were tanking 14 months ago. Now, they are likely going to make the playoffs.
With a good offseason and a good coaching hire, the Jets can do what the Dolphins did. Maybe it takes one extra year. But the NFL is a quick turnaround league, and we have the cap space and draft capital to overhaul our roster. Just gotta bring in the right guys.
I understand being pessimistic about the Jets bringing in the right guys. But you also can't blame Joe Douglas for the mistakes of Idzik and Maccagnan and Tannenbaum and Bradway and everyone else. His first draft looks good, but it's very early. His first free agency class doesn't, but he almost purely bargain shopped for 1-year deals, so the jury is still out.
You have to hope Douglas drafts well, and he helps bring in a good coach. And if he doesn't, we can fire him and start over again.
Well said. I look at the Jets, figure out how long I'm going to live and count backwards from there. I have two or three rebuilds left in me, then it's all going to be on you guys.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 30, 2020, 11:19:17 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 30, 2020, 11:50:25 AM
Quote
The #Jets have 5 top-100 picks in 2021
Every time they have had 5 top-100 picks, it's led to success
'06: made playoffs in 3 of next 5 seasons
'00: made playoffs in 3 of next 5 seasons
'84: made playoffs next 2 seasons
'79 & '80: made playoffs '81-82
'67: won SB in '68
Nania
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 30, 2020, 11:52:52 AM
NaniaStop providing relevant facts. Let people gloom and doom the future in peace and then call others the ones with Stockholm Syndrome.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 30, 2020, 11:53:09 AM
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1333163957767561216
LOL @ the comments Joe Caporoso is an idiot. Has to be the whiniest NYJ of Twitter now that Nick Spano is gone.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 30, 2020, 11:56:10 AM
Whether or not they’ve failed to do that in the past is irrelevant. You could argue that they’re just as likely to get it right this time because they’re due (regression to the mean) just like you could argue sustained systemic failure.
Also irrelevant because different GM’s picked those QBs and the strategies to build around them. We have no idea how Joe Douglas will fare. We have always said we need to have a GM that can have success building through the draft, and so far Joe Douglas has been able to produce a really good rookie offensive lineman and a 2nd round rookie that isn’t already out of the league. Obviously need to see how things play out, but that’s already better than anything we’ve had the past 10 years.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 30, 2020, 11:59:52 AM
LOL @ the comments Joe Caporoso is an idiot. Has to be the whiniest NYJ of Twitter now that Nick Spano is gone.
Raider Jeaux also in the comments, also smarter than Joe Caporoso
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 30, 2020, 02:43:37 PM
Quote
Jets' chance to earn each draft slot, per FPI.
No. 1: 69%
No. 2: 29%
No. 3: 2%
Less than a 1% chance at all other spots combined.
Hopefully everyone here can maths
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 01, 2020, 06:41:02 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 01, 2020, 06:55:12 PM
https://twitter.com/iankenyonnfl/status/1333634804609388544?s=21
RGIII trade is similarly terri-bad for both sides.
I haven't seen the Goff trade results, but I have to imagine Tennessee is plenty happy right now
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2020, 11:08:20 AM
@Michael_Nania
·
9m
via @tankathon
: the #Jets currently have the NFL's most valuable collection of picks in the 2021 Draft according to the cumulative value of all selections on the Jimmy Johnson trade chart
LFG
Post by: Jumbo on December 02, 2020, 11:33:59 AM
Michael Nania
@Michael_Nania
·
9m
via @tankathon
: the #Jets currently have the NFL's most valuable collection of picks in the 2021 Draft according to the cumulative value of all selections on the Jimmy Johnson trade chart
LFG
This flips if the Jags have the #1 pick instead though lol
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 02, 2020, 11:49:43 AM
Post by: MBGreen on December 02, 2020, 11:49:44 AM
This flips if the Jags have the #1 pick instead though lolBlasphemy
Post by: Libero_2 on December 02, 2020, 12:28:08 PM
Bigger point is maybe we have a GM finally who won't whiff on all the picks.
This is the most important thing for the history of the franchise. Even Duff got his hands on Sam. He just couldn't do anything else right.
JD's Job at #1 is made as easy as possible with Trevor. But he if that's the only pick he gets right it is a failure. Even if we aren't at #1, I have faith JD will get the right QB of those left, and be able to get the rest of the draft right. That's why it's most important that we have him for our future
Post by: bojanglesman on December 02, 2020, 12:30:07 PM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 03, 2020, 02:35:59 AM
This is the most important thing for the history of the franchise. Even Duff got his hands on Sam. He just couldn't do anything else right.
JD's Job at #1 is made as easy as possible with Trevor. But he if that's the only pick he gets right it is a failure. Even if we aren't at #1, I have faith JD will get the right QB of those left, and be able to get the rest of the draft right. That's why it's most important that we have him for our future
I'm not convinced we go QB, at least not in the 1st, if we don't have the first overall pick.
Sure I'm a believer in seriously considering trading out of the 1st overall pick if there's an offer that blows minds on the table. But if we get the 2nd pick? I think you have to seriously contemplate opening up the auction.
If Darnold is that bad under a new HC, we will be in the position to draft a QB the following year anyway. And at least they'll be coming into a team with a better supporting cast than anyone's had in years.
The Lawrence over Darnold argument I can get behind.
Of course this all depends on how many QBs end up being projected going in the top of the 1st and whether the 2nd pick would have any serious value behind it. But if we could surpass what we gave up to draft Darnold, I'd be more than OKAY with that
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 03, 2020, 04:53:04 AM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2020, 05:38:19 AM
I just want Lawrence so all of it is just moot
Post by: dcm1602 on December 03, 2020, 07:27:50 AM
We will go QB for purely financial reasons. We just have one more year of Darnold’s cheap deal. If we don’t trade him now we never will. That and the fact that the best prospect in a generation will fall onto our laps. Not sure what we’ll do if we get the second pick though.
It's not for financial reasons at all.
If we go QB with our first pick, it's because Darnold isn't our QB of the future. In the case of Lawrence yes it could also be because he's seen as a truly rare prospect.
While finances is where the magics made, that's not why we're doing anything here
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2020, 08:21:45 AM
It's not for financial reasons at all.
If we go QB with our first pick, it's because Darnold isn't our QB of the future. In the case of Lawrence yes it could also be because he's seen as a truly rare prospect.
While finances is where the magics made, that's not why we're doing anything here
His point is that Sam hasn't proven to be financially worth an investment, and restarting the clock on the rookie QB deal is going to allow us to spend money to help try and develop the next guy (be it Lawrence or someone else). If Sam was playing like Russel Wilson, then then he'd be worth it. Considering Sam is playing worse than Joe Flacco he's not worth whatever we would need to pay him to keep him
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2020, 08:34:31 AM
Since then, all Darnold has done is suck, while Zach Wilson has become a legit stud prospect. Fields, too. Trey Lance is still ranked really high in a lot of places, too, though I don't know as much about him.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 03, 2020, 08:53:31 AM
Fields, too.
Strongly disagree with Fields being a stud prospect
Zach Wilson is QB2
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2020, 08:57:49 AM
Early in the year, I was saying that the only way we replace Sam is if we get Lawrence because you can't pass up a prospect like that.
Since then, all Darnold has done is suck, while Zach Wilson has become a legit stud prospect. Fields, too. Trey Lance is still ranked really high in a lot of places, too, though I don't know as much about him.
Lance might be good, but I would much rather any team other than mine find that out. He has like 300 career throws, at NDSU. He hasn't played this year, and while he has tools, it's hard to expect him to come into the NFL and be good now. I want no part of using a top 10-15 pick on the guy. If I was somebody late in the 1st who would be able to sit him for 2 years and let him grow, that's a different ball game. But if he goes to say Washington and they want him to start this year? Dude will almost certainly fall apart, because he's just not gonna be ready at that level.
Fields just had that clunker against Indiana, one of the only teams he's played that's actually covered his WRs and put a bit of pressure on him. When NFL teams are doing that week in and week out how is he going to respond?
As for Wilson he's got tools, traits and chances to grow. But again he's doing it at BYU and won't get to show his game against a big time school this year. If he had to do it against Alabama how would he fair? No idea.
Give me Lawrence at 1 and never have to worry about who the guy will be this offseason and we can focus on everything else instead.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2020, 09:05:33 AM
It's common wisdom we will go after WR in the draft. But Perriman looks like a legitimately good player, and Mims does, too. Plus, we have Crowder in the slot, and Berrios as a fine backup in the slot.
We need to add another receiver to the mix for sure, and I would want to give Lawrence everything he needs to succeed. But if they leave the first two rounds without taking a receiver, I no longer think it is a disaster (assuming we bring back Perriman). I still would like a WR by the 4th round though.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2020, 10:35:04 AM
The other thing I'm curious is how much we view WR as a need.
It's common wisdom we will go after WR in the draft. But Perriman looks like a legitimately good player, and Mims does, too. Plus, we have Crowder in the slot, and Berrios as a fine backup in the slot.
We need to add another receiver to the mix for sure, and I would want to give Lawrence everything he needs to succeed. But if they leave the first two rounds without taking a receiver, I no longer think it is a disaster (assuming we bring back Perriman). I still would like a WR by the 4th round though.
I think Douglas will either go after a big name at WR (Galladay / Robinson) or look into our 2/3rd selections as the sweet spot for a WR. What I do not think would happen, although it would be one of the coolest units I've ever seen from a Jets skill position group
Sign a guy, retain perriman AND draft a guy high. Just for fun how different would this WR corps be than anything we had ever experienced?
Allen Robinson
Denzel Mims
Jamison Crowder
Breshaud Perriman
Rashod Bateman
Jesus mary and joseph that would be fun as hell. Then WR 6 is just literally the best ST player you can acquire. I realize it's a pretty big misuse of resources, but man it would be so freaking fun to watch Lawrence flinging it around the yard with that group for a year.
Post by: Johnny English on December 03, 2020, 10:47:16 AM
I think Douglas will either go after a big name at WR (Galladay / Robinson) or look into our 2/3rd selections as the sweet spot for a WR. What I do not think would happen, although it would be one of the coolest units I've ever seen from a Jets skill position group
Sign a guy, retain perriman AND draft a guy high. Just for fun how different would this WR corps be than anything we had ever experienced?
Allen Robinson
Denzel Mims
Jamison Crowder
Breshaud Perriman
Rashod Bateman
Jesus mary and joseph that would be fun as hell. Then WR 6 is just literally the best ST player you can acquire. I realize it's a pretty big misuse of resources, but man it would be so freaking fun to watch Lawrence flinging it around the yard with that group for a year.
No it wouldn't because as things stand our line still isn't good enough to prevent him getting smooshed on half his dropbacks. Interior line is a massive priority. So is edge/OLB. So is corner.
Unless you already have a high quality and well balanced roster drafting BPA is horseshit, as I have always said. Fix the freaking problems.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 03, 2020, 10:48:35 AM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 03, 2020, 10:52:05 AM
Unless you already have a high quality and well balanced roster drafting BPA is horseshit, as I have always said. Fix the freaking problems.I would argue literally the exact opposite. If your team sucks and doesn't have an identity, like the Jets currently don't, draft the best players you can. Obviously use common sense - don't draft another DT in the 1st round - but the Jets should take the best players at OT, OG, C, EDGE, CB, WR or RB
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2020, 10:53:38 AM
I would argue literally the exact opposite. If your team sucks and doesn't have an identity, like the Jets currently don't, draft the best players you can. Obviously use common sense - don't draft another DT in the 1st round - but the Jets should take the best players at OT, OG, C, EDGE, CB, WR or RB
You need to couple this with some smart spending in FA.
Douglas has the tools and resources to make a significant impact on the roster this offseason.
EDIT: And of course, this is dependent on the coaching hire. We need to bring someone in with a good reputation. The rest of the league has seen how this current regime treated players like Osemele, Enunwa etc etc.....we have to wash that stink off of us in order to attract good FAs.
Post by: insanity on December 03, 2020, 10:54:32 AM
I think Douglas will either go after a big name at WR (Galladay / Robinson) or look into our 2/3rd selections as the sweet spot for a WR. What I do not think would happen, although it would be one of the coolest units I've ever seen from a Jets skill position groupThis would be ideal, but that's alot of capital in the position.
Sign a guy, retain perriman AND draft a guy high. Just for fun how different would this WR corps be than anything we had ever experienced?
Allen Robinson
Denzel Mims
Jamison Crowder
Breshaud Perriman
Rashod Bateman
Jesus mary and joseph that would be fun as hell. Then WR 6 is just literally the best ST player you can acquire. I realize it's a pretty big misuse of resources, but man it would be so freaking fun to watch Lawrence flinging it around the yard with that group for a year.
Your scenario means we'll have ~18% of our cap tied to wr.
My prefered option would be to trade crowder to free up cap space. Use that cap space to sign a top guy and then draft a wide reciever with the crowder pick or an earlier pick.
ARob/galladay/juju
Mims
Perriman
Rookie
Berrios
Crowder at 10MM us just a waste of asset allocation. Him only playing in the slot limits who you can get on the field.
Perriman as a #3 or 4 is a great option
Berrios isn't great but as a 5 he can be an effective slot reciever if someone gets injured.
Post by: insanity on December 03, 2020, 10:55:33 AM
I just hope they keep Crowder. He is one of the best slot WRs in the game, drowning on a excrement team. Hell, extend him a few more yearsIf we were keeping darnold i agree, but he won't be here in two years. Trade him and allow our new qb to establish consistency with a reciever
Post by: bojanglesman on December 03, 2020, 10:58:48 AM
If we were keeping darnold i agree, but he won't be here in two years. Trade him and allow our new qb to establish consistency with a reciever
I can see that. He is expensive, but damn he'd be a great asset for a young QB. I'd at least let him play out next year.
Post by: Johnny English on December 03, 2020, 11:04:33 AM
I would argue literally the exact opposite. If your team sucks and doesn't have an identity, like the Jets currently don't, draft the best players you can. Obviously use common sense - don't draft another DT in the 1st round - but the Jets should take the best players at OT, OG, C, EDGE, CB, WR or RB
OK, let me qualify my previous statement: Unless you already have a high quality and well balanced roster, or a disastrously bad one devoid of talent at all positions, drafting BPA is horseshit.
My issue is with this dogged adherence to BPA above all else that lots of people seem to be hooked on. Mike Maccagnan was a big advocate of BPA above roster concerns, how did that work out for him?
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2020, 11:40:35 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on December 03, 2020, 11:41:14 AM
OK, let me qualify my previous statement: Unless you already have a high quality and well balanced roster, or a disastrously bad one devoid of talent at all positions, drafting BPA is horseshit.
My issue is with this dogged adherence to BPA above all else that lots of people seem to be hooked on. Mike Maccagnan was a big advocate of BPA above roster concerns, how did that work out for him?
One would argue that it wasn't the philosophy at fault, but the implementation of the policy, i.e. Duff didn't know who the best player was.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2020, 11:43:33 AM
No it wouldn't because as things stand our line still isn't good enough to prevent him getting smooshed on half his dropbacks. Interior line is a massive priority. So is edge/OLB. So is corner.
Unless you already have a high quality and well balanced roster drafting BPA is horseshit, as I have always said. Fix the freaking problems.
As for the line, I think it's actually trending nicely. In terms of actual FA targets, I think it's infinitely more likely Douglas targets Thuney than any top WR option. I also wouldn't be shocked if we take an OL with our first 4 picks even if we sign Thuney. The wildcard of course is Clark. What is he looking like? Is there a chance he's a future starter? Is he a depth guy? Is he just a guy we are going to cut at the end of camp?
Overall we need more talent. I'd argue we need more defensive young talent than offensive in terms of the number of athletes. But with our first 4 picks (3 we have now plus the 1 we get for Sam) I think we should go 3/4 offensive, with our defensive prospect either a Cb or an edge defender.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 03, 2020, 11:45:06 AM
One would argue that it wasn't the philosophy at fault, but the implementation of the policy, i.e. Duff didn't know who the best player was.
Also It's not really BPA its BPAWRPATAPON but nobody actually says that.
Best Player Available Within Reason and Preferably At A Position Of Need for those unfamiliar with the BPOAWRPATAPON term
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2020, 12:19:49 PM
One would argue that it wasn't the philosophy at fault, but the implementation of the policy, i.e. Duff didn't know who the best player was.Bingo
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 03, 2020, 01:11:26 PM
I think Douglas will either go after a big name at WR (Galladay / Robinson) or look into our 2/3rd selections as the sweet spot for a WR. What I do not think would happen, although it would be one of the coolest units I've ever seen from a Jets skill position group
Sign a guy, retain perriman AND draft a guy high. Just for fun how different would this WR corps be than anything we had ever experienced?
Allen Robinson
Denzel Mims
Jamison Crowder
Breshaud Perriman
Rashod Bateman
Jesus mary and joseph that would be fun as hell. Then WR 6 is just literally the best ST player you can acquire. I realize it's a pretty big misuse of resources, but man it would be so freaking fun to watch Lawrence flinging it around the yard with that group for a year.
Not when Gase is back on the sidelines next year ruining whomever we have at QB and handing the ball to Gore 30 times a game
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2020, 01:29:02 PM
Not when Gase is back on the sidelines next year ruining whomever we have at QB and handing the ball to Gore 30 times a game
Gase just admitted to the media that he failed Darnold. He's not coming back.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on December 03, 2020, 02:28:44 PM
Gase just admitted to the media that he failed Darnold. He's not coming back.
NEVER underestimate the retardation of the Johnsons
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 03, 2020, 02:34:29 PM
NEVER underestimate the retardation of the Johnsons
Although only one of the retards hired Gase.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 03, 2020, 02:40:04 PM
Gase just admitted to the media that he failed Darnold. He's not coming back.
Just needs a little more time.
Post by: MBGreen on December 03, 2020, 02:49:49 PM
Just needs a little more time.
Feed those laser eyes some Arbys sauce.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 06, 2020, 10:00:42 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 06, 2020, 11:47:24 PM
Ty Johnson looks like he's worth keeping
Thanks, I’ll stick with Frank Gord.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 07, 2020, 03:46:08 AM
Ty Johnson looks like he's worth keeping
remember when ty johnson broke off like 2 really good runs to start the 4th quarter in one of our games early on in the season, and then we functionally never saw him again until yesterday? such a gase thing to do
Post by: Heismanberg on December 07, 2020, 06:47:24 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 07, 2020, 07:08:30 AM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 07, 2020, 07:12:45 AM
i'm as big a cowher fan as any but i'd be wary of the time gap. but i guess gruden has done relatively okay.
Cowher hasn’t coached in 14 years so I’m definitely worried about the time away. Also, I hate him.
Post by: Johnny English on December 07, 2020, 07:22:26 AM
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 07, 2020, 07:26:40 AM
Cowher hasn’t coached in 14 years so I’m definitely worried about the time away. Also, I hate him.
he's very ugly. we already have too many uggos on this team. we should bring jamal back so he could be our twerk queen again, wed be so hot
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 07, 2020, 07:47:33 AM
https://twitter.com/WFANmornings/status/1335921071959265280?s=20
LFG
Post by: insanity on December 07, 2020, 07:51:52 AM
remember when ty johnson broke off like 2 really good runs to start the 4th quarter in one of our games early on in the season, and then we functionally never saw him again until yesterday? such a gase thing to doGase put him in in a couple of other situations, but the only thing he was good at was outside zone and catching the ball.
Eventually the defense caught on. Idk what happened between now and then, but It looks like he figured out or they practiced more inside runs once perine got injured
Post by: MBGreen on December 07, 2020, 08:11:25 AM
Post by: Italian Seafood on December 07, 2020, 08:13:58 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on December 07, 2020, 08:15:20 AM
I'm not a big fan of bringing in retreads, but i'd make an exception for Cowher. Because he knows how to coach/manage the entire team, not just one phase. That's exactly what this team needs next season.
He hasn't coached in the pass first football era
Pass on the old school tough defense tough rushing attack mentality
Post by: MBGreen on December 07, 2020, 08:21:58 AM
He hasn't coached in the pass first football era
Pass on the old school tough defense tough rushing attack mentality
What?
Cowher consistently won with Defense, and a balanced attack (run/pass). I'd take that over the dogshit we currently see week in and week out.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 07, 2020, 11:51:59 AM
The only way Cowher makes sense is as an assistant if the team really falls in live with someone like Brady, who IMO is too young and inexperienced to be given full program control without vereran support.
I can't see a reason why Cowher would give up his gig for a HC job after nearly 15 years. But this would be the situation I'd love to have him in. Mentor to a guy like Brady as an AHC with some random role on the team. Let the dude teach Brady the ropes for a few years while helping him instill discipline and figure out how to manage it all. I don't see any reason Cowher would want that, but man it would be fun as hell to watch a Cowher coached defense with that type of offensive ingenuity.
Post by: Miamipuck on December 07, 2020, 01:59:52 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 07, 2020, 02:03:59 PM
I can't see a reason why Cowher would give up his gig for a HC job after nearly 15 years. But this would be the situation I'd love to have him in. Mentor to a guy like Brady as an AHC with some random role on the team. Let the dude teach Brady the ropes for a few years while helping him instill discipline and figure out how to manage it all. I don't see any reason Cowher would want that, but man it would be fun as hell to watch a Cowher coached defense with that type of offensive ingenuity.Until he hires Ken Whisenhunt as his offensive coordinator.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 08, 2020, 03:20:07 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2020, 07:12:05 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 13, 2020, 07:30:05 PM
allen robinson is the guy we need to target
At least One of Galladay, Robinson or Godwin is going to be available because of cap restrictions. We need to get our hands on one of them. Robinson is my preference but I wouldn’t hate Galladay (who I think will actually be ‘cheapest’ of the 3 on his next deal to pair with Mims and Crowder.
I’m hesitant to say we “need” any other FA but Thuney would be the next most important guy to me of those expected to be FAs. I’ll be really curious to see just how stacked the FA market is this year as many teams need to cut a lot of players with big salaries to get under the cap. And as a result of the lower cap deals are going to be smaller than normal. We can only hope JD makes the right moves and gets the right guys here to fix this excrement show
Post by: Miamipuck on December 13, 2020, 10:26:59 PM
This team needs to rebuild its culture as well as its roster. What a shitshow.
By your measure, moor loosing should do it.
Post by: MBGreen on December 13, 2020, 10:34:05 PM
By your measure, moor loosing should do it.The tank will be your salvation
Post by: Badger on December 14, 2020, 10:34:44 AM
By your measure, moor loosing should do it.Leave Othello out of this
Post by: dcm1602 on December 18, 2020, 11:27:46 PM
Exactly what the Jets need
An expensive running back
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-jets-ezekiel-elliott-trade-rumors/amp/
Post by: Johnny English on December 18, 2020, 11:46:49 PM
Post by: MBGreen on December 19, 2020, 06:01:27 AM
Yesss
Exactly what the Jets need
An expensive running back
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-jets-ezekiel-elliott-trade-rumors/amp/
#BleacherReportpropaganda
Post by: delavan on December 19, 2020, 02:09:03 PM
Nose rings are only acceptable on hot chicks with dreadlocks.
So there you are swapping spit with her when
she suddenly starts picking up police ban radio signals...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Bride_by_prakhar.jpg/320px-Bride_by_prakhar.jpg)
Post by: bojanglesman on December 19, 2020, 02:11:18 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on December 27, 2020, 04:09:41 PM
The #Jets are locked into the No. 2 overall pick. Their best options, as I see them right now, are...
1. Keep Sam Darnold, draft OT Penei Sewell, move Becton to RT
2. Keep Darnold, trade down from No. 2 overall
3. Draft Zach Wilson, clear-cut QB2
I’m on the same page as this douche. Trade down to still come away with Wilson/Sewell/Chase is preferred but probably the least likely of the 3
Post by: bojanglesman on December 27, 2020, 04:31:38 PM
Post by: reuben on December 27, 2020, 04:45:19 PM
Post by: AlioTheFool on December 28, 2020, 10:34:49 AM
If not, I'd say keep Darnold without picking up that option and try to trade down to acquire more draft capital--especially if you can net a 2022 first-rounder. Then focus on drafting WR1, RG, TE, CB, EDGE, and maybe RT. If Darnold suddenly changes course in 2021, great. If not, most of the pieces will be in place by the 2022 draft to package picks to move up for whoever is the next college QB to emerge.
I've always been in favor of building a strong foundation then getting the QB, which this team never does. It's a little weird right now though because Elflein changed things with the OL, and WR1 could be solved via free agency--making Wilson a viable pick with a shot at early success.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 28, 2020, 10:45:18 AM
WR1 could be solved via free agency
This wide receiver class in free agency is freaking loaded, and I say that as someone that despises the idea of signing Juju.
Back up the money truck for A-Rob, but I'd absolutely take a Kenny Golladay even coming off of a lost season as plan B.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2020, 10:46:49 AM
He deserves to play with a good QB for once.
Post by: mj2sexay on December 28, 2020, 10:47:55 AM
Allen Robinson would be stupid to sign with the Jets unless he only cares about money.
He deserves to play with a good QB for once.
I don't disagree, but money is a hell of a motivating factor.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 28, 2020, 10:49:11 AM
Wilson made Isaac Rex look like the best tight end in the country.
Post by: Badger on December 28, 2020, 10:55:36 AM
This team also needs a reliable tight end, especially if we draft Zach Wilson.Jake Butt is a free agent.
Wilson made Isaac Rex look like the best tight end in the country.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 28, 2020, 10:56:05 AM
If the new HC believes Wilson is his guy, then it's a no-brainer. You take him with #2.Makes a lot of sense. I don't think Darnold will be the guy here, but I don't think it's wrong to use him for another year as effectively a cheap stopgap veteran to build the rest of the team for the next guy with that #2 pick. I don't think we can get a haul in draft capital in trading him. Maybe a 3rd, only because he's a QB. He's not going to be any team's starter in 2021 unless he stays here.
If not, I'd say keep Darnold without picking up that option and try to trade down to acquire more draft capital--especially if you can net a 2022 first-rounder. Then focus on drafting WR1, RG, TE, CB, EDGE, and maybe RT. If Darnold suddenly changes course in 2021, great. If not, most of the pieces will be in place by the 2022 draft to package picks to move up for whoever is the next college QB to emerge.
I've always been in favor of building a strong foundation then getting the QB, which this team never does. It's a little weird right now though because Elflein changed things with the OL, and WR1 could be solved via free agency--making Wilson a viable pick with a shot at early success.
I would like for Doug to overwhelmingly use the draft and free agency for offense. I'd rather have a good offense with a excrement defense for a year or 2 to develop the QB. Developing a defense is easier than finding a franchise QB. We aren't going to develop a QB surrounding him with Jeremy Kerley types. Give him some receivers and do like the Bengals did with Burrow and let him air it out for good or bad.
I also understand the alternative argument to go ahead and get the QB now and not waste a year. Get Gase the freak outta here and I can deal with either decision afterwards.
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 28, 2020, 11:02:36 AM
Allen Robinson would be stupid to sign with the Jets unless he only cares about money.
He deserves to play with a good QB for once.
i've already said this in other threads. a-rob's IG thot baby momma is from paterson NJ and lemme tell you that derriere/body is fcking unreal. that's something that will totally be taken into account when thinking about his next destination
we just need to offer him a ton of money, and i don't know if we will
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 28, 2020, 11:03:26 AM
Jake Butt is a free agent.
would make sense to pair a TE whose last name is Butt with a QB that has a buttface like Wilson's
Post by: bojanglesman on December 28, 2020, 11:03:32 AM
i've already said this in other threads. a-rob's IG thot baby momma is from paterson NJ and lemme tell you that derriere/body is fcking unreal. that's something that will totally be taken into account when thinking about his next destinationHow's the camel toe? Is it Gaga quality?
we just need to offer him a ton of money, and i don't know if we will
Post by: d sw0rdz on December 28, 2020, 11:04:30 AM
How's the camel toe? Is it Gaga quality?
ngl, that excrement looks fat. i mean that in the best way possible
Post by: Badger on December 28, 2020, 11:19:41 AM
Darnold2Arnold
Post by: Johnny English on December 28, 2020, 11:45:51 AM
Jake Butt is a free agent.
Jim Harbaugh will jump at the chance to work with him again.
Post by: Badger on December 28, 2020, 11:53:09 AM
Jim Harbaugh will jump at the chance to work with him again.HJIC of the NYJ
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 31, 2020, 10:15:44 AM
Hopefully Golladay has worn out his welcome in Detroit.
Post by: Johnny English on December 31, 2020, 10:23:13 AM
https://twitter.com/ChrisBurkeNFL/status/1344678145190989824
Hopefully Golladay has worn out his welcome in Detroit.
Didn't he have a bunch of character concerns in school or am I confusing him with someone else?
Post by: MBGreen on December 31, 2020, 10:25:00 AM
Post by: insanity on January 01, 2021, 04:55:59 AM
Golladay told the media his first choice is to stay with Detroit....they'll probably tag him.We are going to end up with juju aren't we
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2021, 07:04:34 AM
We are going to end up with juju aren't weIt would be terrible if we got a receiver who was better than all our current receivers.
Post by: dcm1602 on January 01, 2021, 07:24:54 AM
It would be terrible if we got a receiver who was better than all our current receivers.
Our track record of offensive skill position players from the Steelers has been impeccable
I hope Juju can be as much of a difference maker as Santonio, Plaxico, and Bell.
On a more serious note I wouldn't expect him to be anything like those guys. But Pittsburgh has a damn good record of getting way more out of a guy than other teams.
And that list above doesn't even include their most recent misfit diasaster headcase
Post by: Badger on January 01, 2021, 07:34:03 AM
Our track record of offensive skill position players from the Steelers has been impeccable
Just like our terrible track record of drafting QBs who went to college.
Post by: MBGreen on January 01, 2021, 07:38:36 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 01, 2021, 08:29:45 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 04, 2021, 11:33:35 AM
Should we trade for him? I think yes.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 04, 2021, 11:36:24 AM
Sounds like Zach Ertz might be done in Philly.
Should we trade for him? I think yes.
30 year old TE, I’d be fine waiting until June 2.
Post by: Johnny English on January 04, 2021, 11:36:40 AM
Sounds like Zach Ertz might be done in Philly.
Should we trade for him? I think yes.
Sounds like there are a lot of very grumpy people in and around that team right now. If I were Roseman I'd be telling everyone to immediately go on vacation for a couple of weeks, don't think, talk or read about football, decompress from the season, and then start thinking about what comes next. Making decisions now because you're mad about what happened this season, or even yesterday, is a recipe for making bad ones.
Post by: Jumbo on January 04, 2021, 04:03:11 PM
Sounds like Zach Ertz might be done in Philly.
Should we trade for him? I think yes.
Unless it's incredibly cheap no. He's looking like one of those TEs who's done once they hit their 30s, not someone who can continue playing at a high level
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 09, 2021, 07:40:50 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 10, 2021, 08:40:10 AM
Quote
https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/85558/how-jets-will-resolve-sam-darnold-dilemma-todd-mcshay-has-a-hunch
McShay's take on what direction we go, based on his relationship with JD.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2021, 08:49:01 AM
McShay's take on what direction we go, based on his relationship with JD.freak Todd McShay
Post by: mj2sexay on January 10, 2021, 09:38:23 AM
freak Todd McShay
Can't say I'm thrilled about Dick's top 3 either.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 10, 2021, 09:42:33 AM
McShay's take on what direction we go, based on his relationship with JD.I'm indifferent on new QB vs riding with Darnold one more year and building with the picks. I'm not under any false illusion that Darnold may be toast mentally. But it would be exciting to see us trade down from 2 and load up on talent.
Post by: MBGreen on January 10, 2021, 09:44:53 AM
I'm indifferent on new QB vs riding with Darnold one more year and building with the picks. I'm not under any false illusion that Darnold may be toast mentally. But it would be exciting to see us trade down from 2 and load up on talent.All you need to worry about is loading up on beef n cheddars
Post by: bojanglesman on January 10, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
All you need to worry about is loading up on beef n cheddarsIs that a new term for gords? It should be. You can always draft a beef n cheddar in thr later rounds.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 10, 2021, 02:16:55 PM
Eww
Post by: Libero_2 on January 10, 2021, 02:46:49 PM
Mort report: Sources say Watson could play hardball with Texans about a trade. His new $156 million contract includes a no-trade clause but informed speculation from a source is that he would consider the @MiamiDolphins in which Tua Tagovailoa and additional compensation goes to Houston.
Eww
There are only 3 teams wi the draft compensation to make it work: Jets, Jags and Dolphins.
Fins just took Tua and if they aren’t ready to give up on him, it won’t happen. But if they are considering a QB at 3, there is no reason not to trade it all for Watson. Tua + 3 is the best deal available if they believe Tua is a quality QB prospect. The only thing holding it back is essentially they are trading Watson for Tunsil. So no matter how it shakes out they lose that PR battle.
Post by: Badger on January 16, 2021, 01:35:34 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/kylqtf/how_long_did_it_ake_every_214_team_to_get_back_to
Post by: casman02 on January 17, 2021, 01:45:19 PM
Post by: MBGreen on January 17, 2021, 01:48:06 PM
Now that some time has passed, I figured I would let you all know that I am likely to blame for the Jets 2 wins and not getting Lawrence. Those were the only two games I wore my Jets long sleeve t shirt. The rest were either regular t shirts or sweatshirts. My bad everyone.
freak off, mate.
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 17, 2021, 03:41:35 PM
Now that some time has passed, I figured I would let you all know that I am likely to blame for the Jets 2 wins and not getting Lawrence. Those were the only two games I wore my Jets long sleeve t shirt. The rest were either regular t shirts or sweatshirts. My bad everyone.
Funny, I found an old Jets T in the drawer from the Pennington days, still in decent shape. Started wearing it for games, the Cleveland game though, we had already beaten the Rams.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 18, 2021, 08:40:33 AM
Here's some rando from SNY creating 3 trade packages we could offer up for Watson:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/3-potential-trade-packages-jets-200152261.html
TL;DR
Option 1: Both 2021 1st rd picks, 2021 5th, and 2022 3rd
Option 2: #2 overall, 2021 2nd rd, Seattle 2022 1st rd pick and 2022 4th rd pick
Option 3: Sam Darnold, #2 Overall, and Seattle 2022 1st rd pick
Discuss
Post by: bojanglesman on January 18, 2021, 08:41:35 AM
Obvious speculative rumors flying around linking us to trading for Watson because of the draft capital we have.Don't think any of those is enough to get it done unless we are the only bidder, which isn't the case.
Here's some rando from SNY creating 3 trade packages we could offer up for Watson:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/3-potential-trade-packages-jets-200152261.html
TL;DR
Option 1: Both 2021 1st rd picks, 2021 5th, and 2022 3rd
Option 2: #2 overall, 2021 2nd rd, Seattle 2022 1st rd pick and 2022 4th rd pick
Option 3: Sam Darnold, #2 Overall, and Seattle 2022 1st rd pick
Discuss
Post by: Badger on January 18, 2021, 08:49:12 AM
Obvious speculative rumors flying around linking us to trading for Watson because of the draft capital we have.I would do any of these.
Here's some rando from SNY creating 3 trade packages we could offer up for Watson:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/3-potential-trade-packages-jets-200152261.html
TL;DR
Option 1: Both 2021 1st rd picks, 2021 5th, and 2022 3rd
Option 2: #2 overall, 2021 2nd rd, Seattle 2022 1st rd pick and 2022 4th rd pick
Option 3: Sam Darnold, #2 Overall, and Seattle 2022 1st rd pick
Discuss
Post by: Badger on January 18, 2021, 08:49:39 AM
I would do any of these.Glass half empty:
Don't think any of those is enough to get it done unless we are the only bidder, which isn't the case.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 08:50:03 AM
I would do any of these.
this
Post by: IATA on January 18, 2021, 08:52:41 AM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 18, 2021, 08:55:14 AM
Don't think any of those is enough to get it done unless we are the only bidder, which isn't the case.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/deshaun-watson-trade-rumors-patriots-dolphins-49ers-texans/y9y2bddicrn014klrevw12zpx
Meanwhile this clown thinks NE is the best spot because the Texans hired Nick Caseiro and all they would have to give up is the 15th overall pick for Watson
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 08:55:22 AM
where is devonta smith projected to go? quinnen is down keeping sam and wants smith, which sounds pretty alright
Top 10
Ja'Marr Chase is the better prospect. Jaylen Waddle might be too.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 18, 2021, 09:41:45 AM
Obvious speculative rumors flying around linking us to trading for Watson because of the draft capital we have.
Here's some rando from SNY creating 3 trade packages we could offer up for Watson:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/3-potential-trade-packages-jets-200152261.html
TL;DR
Option 1: Both 2021 1st rd picks, 2021 5th, and 2022 3rd
Option 2: #2 overall, 2021 2nd rd, Seattle 2022 1st rd pick and 2022 4th rd pick
Option 3: Sam Darnold, #2 Overall, and Seattle 2022 1st rd pick
Discuss
#3 is ideal but yeah, any of these are good.
Post by: reuben on January 18, 2021, 09:52:06 AM
The price I'm willing to pay for Watson immediately goes up if the alternative is that the Miami Dolphins get him instead.
If the choice is either he's a Dolphin or a Jet, I'm giving our two firsts this year, our two firsts next year, and a first in 2022. It would be painful, but not nearly as painful as watching the Bills and Dolphins tag team us for the next ten years.
Post by: MBGreen on January 18, 2021, 09:54:00 AM
All those options are hilariously lowball. This is an MVP caliber QB just entering his prime.
The price I'm willing to pay for Watson immediately goes up if the alternative is that the Miami Dolphins get him instead.
If the choice is either he's a Dolphin or a Jet, I'm giving our two firsts this year, our two firsts next year, and a first in 2022. It would be painful, but not nearly as painful as watching the Bills and Dolphins tag team us for the next ten years.
I admire your enthusiasm...but there's no way JD gives up 5 first round picks for Watson.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 09:54:55 AM
I admire your enthusiasm...but there's no way JD gives up 5 first round picks for Watson.
Whatever it takes
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 18, 2021, 09:55:56 AM
Post by: MBGreen on January 18, 2021, 09:56:15 AM
Whatever it takes
JD is too pragmatic. You need a Duff at the helm to go that nuts on a trade.
Post by: MBGreen on January 18, 2021, 09:57:38 AM
Three first rounders seems like it’ll be the starting price. Hopefully adding Darnold and a couple of other picks would help give one of the first rounders back to us.
3 first rounders should BE the price....remember, he's also coming with 150 mil dollar contract.
Post by: reuben on January 18, 2021, 09:58:55 AM
I admire your enthusiasm...but there's no way JD gives up 5 first round picks for Watson.
There's no precedent for this kind of trade. The only thing remotely close is Jay Cutler, who sucks, and that cost the Bears two firsts, a third, and Orton.
Post by: MBGreen on January 18, 2021, 10:02:42 AM
There's no precedent for this kind of trade. The only thing remotely close is Jay Cutler, who sucks, and that cost the Bears two firsts, a third, and Orton.
3 first rounders the Jets could handle....hell, throw in Darnold too. But anything more than that and you're now entering "mortgaging the future" territory.
I want Watson like the rest of you....but you still need to be able to build the rest of the team.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 18, 2021, 10:35:19 AM
There's no precedent for this kind of trade. The only thing remotely close is Jay Cutler, who sucks, and that cost the Bears two firsts, a third, and Orton.
I'd happily trade Kyle Orton to the Texans for Watson.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 18, 2021, 11:05:41 AM
3 first rounders the Jets could handle....hell, throw in Darnold too. But anything more than that and you're now entering "mortgaging the future" territory.Yeah, let's calm down on five 1st-round picks. Nobody is going to offer that. And we have the #2 pick, which is not your average 1st-round pick.
I want Watson like the rest of you....but you still need to be able to build the rest of the team.
Nobody else can offer three 1st-round picks in the next two seasons, including the #2 overall pick. Someone would need to offer four 1sts just to compete, unless the Texans are hell-bent on keeping him out of the AFC.
Post by: Laxin on January 18, 2021, 12:00:49 PM
3 first rounders the Jets could handle....hell, throw in Darnold too. But anything more than that and you're now entering "mortgaging the future" territory.
I want Watson like the rest of you....but you still need to be able to build the rest of the team.
Even if the price is 4 first round picks (two this year, one in 2022, and one in 2023), their future isn't nearly jeopardized. That Jamal trade really makes this doable and palatable. The Jets would still have a full draft class this year if you consider Watson their pseudo 1st round choice. They'd have a full draft class the in 2022, and just missing their 1st in 2023- which you hope by then with the addition on Watson would be in the latter half of the 1st round.
5 first is a ton, but it's still survivable. What's not really survivable is getting the QB wrong again, or wasting more time on Darnold just for him to continue to play poorly. We all love draft picks here and discussing possibilities, but they are just a lottery ticket to a certain extent. Half of this team's 1st round picks of the past decade have been complete trash.
As Heis said, whatever it takes. Miami's interest should play a large role in how much JD is willing to give up.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 18, 2021, 12:20:55 PM
It will likely cost more unless Watson exercises the no-trade clause to the point it's one team bidding against itself.
Hopefully his relationship in Houston continues to deteriorate and for whatever reason he decides he wants to be a Jet.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 18, 2021, 01:37:12 PM
Even if the price is 4 first round picks (two this year, one in 2022, and one in 2023), their future isn't nearly jeopardized. That Jamal trade really makes this doable and palatable. The Jets would still have a full draft class this year if you consider Watson their pseudo 1st round choice. They'd have a full draft class the in 2022, and just missing their 1st in 2023- which you hope by then with the addition on Watson would be in the latter half of the 1st round.Pretty much agree with this. Now granted, there is a limit, and five firsts exceeds that limit for me. But until we either get a QB or build up a great roster, we're treading water. The draft picks can be used to help build up a great roster, or they can be used to address QB with a known commodity. I would prefer that option.
5 first is a ton, but it's still survivable. What's not really survivable is getting the QB wrong again, or wasting more time on Darnold just for him to continue to play poorly. We all love draft picks here and discussing possibilities, but they are just a lottery ticket to a certain extent. Half of this team's 1st round picks of the past decade have been complete trash.
As Heis said, whatever it takes. Miami's interest should play a large role in how much JD is willing to give up.
Post by: bojanglesman on January 18, 2021, 02:26:22 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 02:31:54 PM
25 year old franchise quarterback are not shopped. It's unheard of.
NFL players will line up to play with Watson. It's a franchise altering move.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 18, 2021, 02:55:40 PM
I probably love the draft more than anybody here. If we have to overspend to get Deshaun Watson here so he doesn't go to Miami, so be it.
25 year old franchise quarterback are not shopped. It's unheard of.
NFL players will line up to play with Watson. It's a franchise altering move.
This. I cannot repeat this enough. If he is on the market he has the chance to be worth virtually anything we could pay.
It becomes extremely critical that we get whatever remaining picks we have correct, but if this guy is available you do anything you can to get him
Post by: Italian Seafood on January 18, 2021, 03:08:22 PM
I probably love the draft more than anybody here. If we have to overspend to get Deshaun Watson here so he doesn't go to Miami, so be it.
25 year old franchise quarterback are not shopped. It's unheard of.
NFL players will line up to play with Watson. It's a franchise altering move.
Where in the draft would we get Deshaun Watson? We don't.
Any time a star player is traded, what you give up or think you're getting back is irrelevant. It never matches the star player, particularly if he's in his prime. A team makes a decision to either keep or part with a star player, whatever you might get back is window dressing.
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 04:05:42 PM
I probably love the draft more than anybody here. If we have to overspend to get Deshaun Watson here so he doesn't go to Miami, so be it.Yeah I've laid the case out plenty in the LOLTexans thread
25 year old franchise quarterback are not shopped. It's unheard of.
NFL players will line up to play with Watson. It's a franchise altering move.
If JD is worth a lick in the draft dept. Excess capital being spent to leverage into a top 3 QB in his prime should be laughably easy to workaround
Not.the other way around. It'd be egotistical and moronic to assume you'd make better use of all that capital and hit on 100% of every pick
Watson turns this into a destination
Who do you want
Because they'll run to NY to play with Watson
That alone makes up for any draft capital
A guarantee >>>a hope
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 04:11:31 PM
A guarantee >>>a hope
RT
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2021, 04:15:11 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 04:16:56 PM
The flipside to that is that we're going to need draft picks over the next couple of years in that situation, because Watson plus a couple of these elite FAs who are desperate to play with him will quickly chew up most of our available cap space, especially in a couple of years when we have guys like Q and Becton who are needing to get paid.
The draft lasts for more than one round
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2021, 04:29:02 PM
The draft lasts for more than one round
Yes but the players outside of it aren't very good.
Post by: Libero_2 on January 18, 2021, 04:57:26 PM
Yes but the players outside of it aren't very good.
Funny, other NFL teams find quality contributors in those other rounds every year.
If JD is as good as we hope he is, he should find a few of those guys to help build with.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 04:58:21 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 18, 2021, 05:00:48 PM
Zuniga is a really good fit in Saleh's scheme
Obviously the real reason we hired the guy
Post by: Heismanberg on January 18, 2021, 05:03:22 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 18, 2021, 05:25:43 PM
Post by: Laxin on January 18, 2021, 06:10:44 PM
I'm guessing he would remove his no trade clause to come here? JD please.
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 18, 2021, 06:23:59 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyjets/comments/l03s3e/look_who_liked_it/
I'm guessing he would remove his no trade clause to come here? JD please.
I checked the post, they're also selling signed Watson cards. Not sure if that has anything to do with it.
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 06:39:11 PM
Point blank period lol
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 06:53:06 PM
But we assume we're gonna hit on all these picks
I'd sell the farm for Watson
See yall in March when he ends up in Miami lol
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2021, 07:25:49 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on January 18, 2021, 07:29:27 PM
Wait a minute, are we happy to give up a load of picks because we trust in Joe Douglas to have a great strike rate with the ones that are left, or are we happy to give them up because no one knows anything this year and so it's less likely that they'd turn into good players anyway? I feel like it's important we agree on one justification for this rather than running a bunch of diametrically opposed ones simultaneously.
I’m down to give them up because it’s Watson and he’s worth the risk.
As for JD my expectation is he and his scouting staff need to earn their paychecks by hitting on later picks and trading down to acquire more chances to get those guys.
Yes the fact scouting is limited some this year makes this class harder to evaluate but that’s not why you give away picks. You only give those up for a binaries superstar and Watson would be that. In my eyes that’s simply a “bonus” that you are trading even greater unknowns for a star than you normally would. But it’s certainly not the reason to trade them away for just any old guy
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 07:29:51 PM
Wait a minute, are we happy to give up a load of picks because we trust in Joe Douglas to have a great strike rate with the ones that are left, or are we happy to give them up because no one knows anything this year and so it's less likely that they'd turn into good players anyway? I feel like it's important we agree on one justification for this rather than running a bunch of diametrically opposed ones simultaneously.We'd be happy to secure a proven top 3 QB in his prime
Ozzie Newsome himself can't guarantee you a better result of draft capital
Lol
I'm fine regardless
Trade down and give Sam 1 fair shot
Trade for Watson
Get Zach Wilson
All of these are fine
I'd prefer Watson if it only costs three 1s and maybe one other asset
11 times out of 10
Post by: Coach K on January 18, 2021, 07:30:33 PM
Which is a all pro QB
Over the hope you hit on all picks
Post by: Badger on January 18, 2021, 07:41:13 PM
Wait a minute, are we happy to give up a load of picks because we trust in Joe Douglas to have a great strike rate with the ones that are left, or are we happy to give them up because no one knows anything this year and so it's less likely that they'd turn into good players anyway? I feel like it's important we agree on one justification for this rather than running a bunch of diametrically opposed ones simultaneously.Because Deshaun Watson good
Post by: Johnny English on January 18, 2021, 08:05:24 PM
Because Deshaun Watson good
I agree and I'm on board with trading for him if it's an option, as I have already said. I just find it amusing that people are coming up with different and in some ways contradictory justifications as to why an ever increasing amount of picks would be worthwhile.
Personally I think we should give up 6 first round picks because some first round picks sometimes aren't great and if we didn't do it then Douglas would deliberately pick poor players with them to demonstrate why we should have and that will be just be proof of how awesome he is at drafting and roster management and drywalling and cooking and probably sex as well.
Post by: Badger on January 18, 2021, 08:34:01 PM
Go up to 3 if 2 isn't getting it done.
Go up to 4 if you have to win a bidding war with Miami.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 19, 2021, 01:18:19 AM
Post by: delavan on January 19, 2021, 02:50:20 PM
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 20, 2021, 01:44:05 PM
Quote
https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1351904773977595906?s=20
Post by: loyaljetsfan on January 21, 2021, 05:33:02 PM
Beans has been passed up for every vacancy
Watson likes Beans
My hunch is Houston hires Beans to appease Watson
Post by: Badger on January 21, 2021, 05:43:37 PM
Houston last team without a HCSadly I would consider Watson NOT going to our division rival a W.
Beans has been passed up for every vacancy
Watson likes Beans
My hunch is Houston hires Beans to appease Watson
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 24, 2021, 10:10:59 PM
We’ll be back here soon, Kings
Post by: mj2sexay on January 24, 2021, 10:35:02 PM
https://twitter.com/br_betting/status/1353365922887524352?s=21
We’ll be back here soon, Kings
Watching those highlights and I couldn't help but get angry at the idea that J-Co would be off the team next year because they wanted him to basically be a 4th/5th receiver.
One of the most inexplicably stupid moves in a franchise full of them.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 25, 2021, 09:55:16 AM
https://twitter.com/br_betting/status/1353365922887524352?s=21I love the camera angle of David Harris having nothing but green grass in front of him at the 40, and then a 33-year old tight end chases him down at the 20 like he's Usain Bolt.
We’ll be back here soon, Kings
Post by: CatoTheElder on January 25, 2021, 10:19:02 AM
I love the camera angle of David Harris having nothing but green grass in front of him at the 40, and then a 33-year old tight end chases him down at the 20 like he's Usain Bolt.
David Harris was many things, but fast was not one of them.
Post by: Johnny English on January 25, 2021, 10:49:10 AM
I love the camera angle of David Harris having nothing but green grass in front of him at the 40, and then a 33-year old tight end chases him down at the 20 like he's Usain Bolt.
That's not just any 33 year old tight end either, that's all 280lb of Alge Crumpler who wasn't exactly known for his blistering pace.
Post by: insanity on January 25, 2021, 11:41:26 AM
That's not just any 33 year old tight end either, that's all 280lb of Alge Crumpler who wasn't exactly known for his blistering pace.Let us not forget he was also the originator of krumping
Post by: Badger on March 02, 2021, 08:56:39 AM
I wonder when we can finally put this thread aside.
Post by: MBGreen on March 02, 2021, 09:45:31 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1366763032328699904?s=19
I wonder when we can finally put this thread aside.
I enjoyed the article. I don't even care that it's a fluff piece.
Post by: Badger on March 02, 2021, 10:47:42 AM
Post by: MBGreen on March 02, 2021, 10:52:03 AM
To answer my own question I suppose the rebuild is complete when we make the playoffs again.
champ told me the rebuild is complete when we hoist the lombardi trophy
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 02, 2021, 11:37:57 AM
champ told me the rebuild is complete when we hoist the lombardi trophy
Champ said a lot of things. Unfortunately none of them were, "Oh my god, my crotch, my crotch! You're punching me in my crotch!"
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2021, 12:35:44 PM
Gives them a good 24 hours to announce Watson to Jets.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 02, 2021, 06:41:37 PM
https://twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1366906752776740867?s=19
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2021, 07:39:36 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on March 19, 2021, 07:56:56 AM
How do you guys envision the current defensive front 7?
Carl Lawson - Quinnen Williams - Foley Fatukasi - John Franklin-Myers
Jarrad Davis - CJ Mosley - PTBNL
I think we will add another pass rusher and linebacker through free agency or the draft
Post by: reuben on March 19, 2021, 07:58:29 AM
How do you guys envision the current defensive front 7?
Three spots on the line are locked in but I have no idea what the linebackers will look like. I don't think either starting OLB is on the team yet.
Post by: bojanglesman on March 19, 2021, 08:03:40 AM
Someone Mosely Someone else
Post by: insanity on March 19, 2021, 08:24:40 AM
Three spots on the line are locked in but I have no idea what the linebackers will look like. I don't think either starting OLB is on the team yet.You think we paid $7MM for a backup olb?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 19, 2021, 08:28:04 AM
You think we paid $7MM for a backup olb?
$5.5 million
Post by: insanity on March 19, 2021, 08:35:59 AM
$5.5 millionAre the other 1.5MM incentives or was that misquoted?
Post by: bojanglesman on March 19, 2021, 08:37:31 AM
Are the other 1.5MM incentives or was that misquoted?
Incentives that could take it to $7 million, yes.
Admittedly, I am a bit lacking in expertise, but I thought Davis was a MLB in a 4-3 scheme. I guess he could move around and I'm probably pigeon holing him into one spot.
Post by: Heismanberg on March 19, 2021, 08:37:35 AM
Post by: Badger on March 19, 2021, 08:39:21 AM
You think we paid $7MM for a backup olb?Joe D actually paid him to break Darnold's jaw during preseason.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on March 20, 2021, 06:25:14 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on March 20, 2021, 06:31:01 PM
https://twitter.com/nyjrory/status/1373303247730061315?s=21
I'm still mad we never kept Demario Davis.
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2021, 06:47:19 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 12, 2021, 07:12:18 AM
Why do you guys think the QB pick discussion has been so much more contentious among Jets fans this year than in previous years, particularly 2018?Has it been?
Post by: Johnny English on April 12, 2021, 07:42:41 AM
Has it been?I assume he's referring to the Twitter outrage about how everyone's racist for not wanting the black quarterback.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 12, 2021, 07:52:16 AM
I assume he's referring to the Twitter outrage about how everyone's racist for not wanting the black quarterback.I felt like the argument was just as vigorous for Darnold/Rosen/Mayfield/Allen in 2018, just for different reasons.
Post by: MBGreen on April 12, 2021, 07:52:45 AM
I assume he's referring to the Twitter outrage about how everyone's racist for not wanting the black quarterback.
the guy can't read a defense...i don't care if his skin color matches my grandmother's floral print chesterfield.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 12, 2021, 07:54:48 AM
the guy can't read a defense...i don't care if his skin color matches my grandmother's floral print chesterfield.Can he not read a defense? I mean, I don't know excrement, but was it because he can't or wasn't asked to?
Post by: MBGreen on April 12, 2021, 08:03:48 AM
Can he not read a defense? I mean, I don't know excrement, but was it because he can't or wasn't asked to?
His decision-making is questionable because of the system Ryan Day runs at Ohio St....it's very hands on for the coach.
It's one of the reasons why Dwayne Haskins looked great in college, but stinks at the NFL level.
Obviously, it could be different for Fields...but as a Jets fan, and because of our recent history with rookie QBs, i don't really want to take that chance on him.
Post by: IATA on April 12, 2021, 08:30:08 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 12, 2021, 08:32:52 AM
His decision-making is questionable because of the system Ryan Day runs at Ohio St....it's very hands on for the coach.Like every other QB, he could be elite if he ends up in the right situation. I just think there are fewer situations in the NFL where Fields could succeed than Wilson.
It's one of the reasons why Dwayne Haskins looked great in college, but stinks at the NFL level.
Obviously, it could be different for Fields...but as a Jets fan, and because of our recent history with rookie QBs, i don't really want to take that chance on him.
My biggest concern with Wilson isn't competition faced or facing tighter coverage. It's dealing with tough pass rushes. I worry what happens when guys are up in his excrement a few seconds after the snap. I worry he might not have the discipline to avoid stupid throws.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 12, 2021, 08:33:15 AM
wait, were racist for not wanting fields?Just you, not the rest of us.
Post by: IATA on April 12, 2021, 08:34:12 AM
Just you, not the rest of us.
this is truly like 1984
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2021, 08:37:10 AM
wait, were racist for not wanting fields?
Chris Simms (one of the few that had Lamar Jackson as his top QB in 2018) was called a racist for having Justin Fields as QB5.
Zach Wilson
Trevor Lawrence
Mac Jones
Kellen Mond
Justin Fields
(Kellen Mond ...is black)
Post by: bojanglesman on April 12, 2021, 08:39:00 AM
Post by: MBGreen on April 12, 2021, 08:39:25 AM
Lamar is really black too, so that counts as 2 picks.
bleeedat
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 12, 2021, 09:13:42 AM
Chris Simms (one of the few that had Lamar Jackson as his top QB in 2018) was called a racist for having Justin Fields as QB5.
Zach Wilson
Trevor Lawrence
Mac Jones
Kellen Mond
Justin Fields
(Kellen Mond ...is black)
No Trey Lance??
Simms isn’t even trying to hide it
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2021, 09:14:01 AM
I assume he's referring to the Twitter outrage about how everyone's racist for not wanting the black quarterback.Any non-JO setting of online Jets fans tbh.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 12, 2021, 11:45:44 AM
In 2021, it seems like Jets fans will be happy, unless we take Justin Fields. He is the Josh Allen of this draft in terms of sentiment among Jets fans not wanting them.
I don't really get all the Justin Fields hate, unless there is stuff behind the scenes that I'm not privy to. Heismanberg said Fields had a bad work ethic. If that's true, that's the type of thing that I'm not really going to know about.
In terms of the overall sentiment among Jets fans, I absolutely think some of it has to do with him being black, and a lot of the criticisms levied against him are often used against black quarterbacks. I think the majority of it has to do with Jets fans seeing the lack of success of Ohio State quarterbacks and combining that with the "can't read defenses" critique, and they've written him off accordingly. There are definitely people who consciously or unconsciously lump in his race with the "can't read defenses" critique.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2021, 11:55:19 AM
nobody wanted Allen.
False.
I would have taken Josh Allen over Josh Rosen.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 12, 2021, 11:55:35 AM
In 2018, it seemed like all Jets fans would be happy, unless we took Josh Allen. Some guys didn't want Rosen, some didn't want Baker, pretty much everyone was OK with Darnold, and nobody wanted Allen.
In 2021, it seems like Jets fans will be happy, unless we take Justin Fields. He is the Josh Allen of this draft in terms of sentiment among Jets fans not wanting them.
I don't really get all the Justin Fields hate, unless there is stuff behind the scenes that I'm not privy to. Heismanberg said Fields had a bad work ethic. If that's true, that's the type of thing that I'm not really going to know about.
In terms of the overall sentiment among Jets fans, I absolutely think some of it has to do with him being black, and a lot of the criticisms levied against him are often used against black quarterbacks. I think the majority of it has to do with Jets fans seeing the lack of success of Ohio State quarterbacks and combining that with the "can't read defenses" critique, and they've written him off accordingly. There are definitely people who consciously or unconsciously lump in his race with the "can't read defenses" critique.
Do you have Trevor Lawrence rated higher than Fields?
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
Heismanberg said Fields had a bad work ethic. If that's true, that's the type of thing that I'm not really going to know about.critique.
Dan Orlovsky said he heard this. I have also heard that he is an entitled turd that at one point thought he was god's gift to football.
Maybe he's matured since then, but I don't care what Ryan Day has to say about Justin Fields. He is not going to say anything negative about him.
I don't like players that transfer due to losing a position battle. They are not true competitors. Fields is a bitch for the way he acted when Jake Fromm remained the starter at UGA.
Post by: Johnny English on April 12, 2021, 12:05:02 PM
I don't like players that transfer due to losing a position battle. They are not true competitors.
Uh, weren't you a big fan of Joe Burrow?
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2021, 12:05:33 PM
Uh, weren't you a big fan of Joe Burrow?
No, he is a queynte
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 12, 2021, 12:54:10 PM
And of course I have Lawrence over Fields. I have Wilson over Fields, too, but it's close, and to be honest, it seems like we're all in on Wilson, so I'm not really watching/reading up on Fields much anymore. I wanted to watch more Lance, too, but I don't really see the point if we're sold on Wilson.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on April 12, 2021, 01:18:21 PM
I don't like players that transfer due to losing a position battle. They are not true competitors. Fields is a bitch for the way he acted when Jake Fromm remained the starter at UGA.
This is an interesting juxtaposition with Wilson who, instead of complaining about having to compete for the BYU starting QB job last year, decided to put his head down and focus on dominating his competition.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 12, 2021, 01:41:02 PM
I don't like players that transfer due to losing a position battle. They are not true competitors.
So it would be better if they just rode the pine instead of finding another place to compete for a starting spot?
Post by: Libero_2 on April 12, 2021, 01:56:29 PM
So it would be better if they just rode the pine instead of finding another place to compete for a starting spot?
I think context on the transfer is important
Did you transfer because you got beat out by a younger player? And now realize you will never have a chance to play?
Or did you transfer because you walked into the program and decided you were going to be the starter over one of the top QBs in the country and a future NFL draft pick, then when you don’t immediately win the competition your first summer, you transfer out?
Those are different situations and Fields absolutely falls into the former category. I don’t hold that against him but if he hadn’t gotten his waiver to play immediately at Ohio state he still would have been unable to play until after Fromm had moved on. I think the NCAA has played fast and loose with transfer rules, and Fields waiver is one of those examples.
Post by: reuben on April 12, 2021, 02:41:08 PM
In 2021, it seems like Jets fans will be happy, unless we take Justin Fields. He is the Josh Allen of this draft in terms of sentiment among Jets fans not wanting them.
I don't know about that, a large portion of Jets reddit wants Fields over Wilson.
Post by: MBGreen on April 12, 2021, 02:42:22 PM
I don't know about that, a large portion of Jets reddit wants Fields over Wilson.
our fanbase isn't exactly loaded with rhodes scholars
Post by: Laxin on April 12, 2021, 03:36:32 PM
I don't know about that, a large portion of Jets reddit wants Fields over Wilson.
I think most "casual" fans prefer Fields over Wilson. They look at competition and Fields' athleticism and can't fathom a scenario where Wilson is the better prospect.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 12, 2021, 03:42:40 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on April 12, 2021, 07:28:39 PM
JUSTIN FIELDS WILL BE WAY BETTER IN MADDEN
I mean this is almost certainly true.
Until Madden 2023 when he is rated a 68 with low potential. Then he will rightfully suck donkey balls
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2021, 08:38:10 PM
JUSTIN FIELDS WILL BE WAY BETTER IN MADDENTrey Lance >>>
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 12, 2021, 09:26:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2021, 09:09:47 AM
- CJ Mosley gets traded
- we sign Nick Mullens
Post by: Laxin on April 20, 2021, 09:29:58 AM
2 things that i expect could happen at the draft that kind have flown under the radar ....totally speculating here.
- CJ Mosley gets traded
- we sign Nick Mullens
At this point I think CJ Mosley is worth more to us than whatever we'd get in return.
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2021, 09:30:50 AM
At this point I think CJ Mosley is worth more to us than whatever we'd get in return.
he could be packaged in a trade up scenario....especially if we use a premium pick on a LB.
Post by: Johnny English on April 20, 2021, 09:40:42 AM
he could be packaged in a trade up scenario....especially if we use a premium pick on a LB.
Why would a team trade a premium pick for CJ Mosley's massive contract and a less good pick, rather than just use that pick to take the linebacker on the rookie contract?
We're the ones with the cap space, we can better afford Mosley than most. I would be very surprised if anyone were remotely interested in trading for that contract, and if they were we'd get next to nothing in return.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 20, 2021, 09:47:09 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 20, 2021, 09:51:15 AM
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2021, 09:58:45 AM
Why would a team trade a premium pick for CJ Mosley's massive contract and a less good pick, rather than just use that pick to take the linebacker on the rookie contract?Nobody said we'd trade him for premium pick straight up
We're the ones with the cap space, we can better afford Mosley than most. I would be very surprised if anyone were remotely interested in trading for that contract, and if they were we'd get next to nothing in return.
Post by: reuben on April 20, 2021, 10:03:34 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 20, 2021, 10:15:56 AM
I'd rather keep him, his value is probably at career-lowest right now.
I just worry that he's lost a step
Post by: Badger on April 20, 2021, 10:23:31 AM
I just worry that he's lost a stepIn that case we'd be stuck with him through 2022.
Post by: Johnny English on April 20, 2021, 10:40:57 AM
I just worry that he's lost a step
Why? The last time he stepped on a football field he still looked like an elite player.
Post by: MBGreen on April 20, 2021, 10:43:42 AM
Why? The last time he stepped on a football field he still looked like an elite player.A lot can happen in 2 years
Post by: bojanglesman on April 20, 2021, 10:52:14 AM
In that case we'd be stuck with him through 2022.
Crap, error
Post by: Heismanberg on April 20, 2021, 10:52:21 AM
Why? The last time he stepped on a football field he still looked like an elite player.
The last time he stepped on the field, he got beat to the pylon and re-injured his groin
He's also two years older
Post by: Johnny English on April 20, 2021, 11:09:22 AM
The last time he stepped on the field, he got beat to the pylon and re-injured his groin
He's also two years older
He's still only 28 and he's had 18 months to recover from a lifetime of football. Of course there's a risk that he's spent that time sitting at the end of a bar thinking about all the things he'd rather be doing than playing football, but he might also have spent that time getting his body into the best shape it has ever been. A completely healthy and refreshed Mosley playing for Robert Saleh could very easily turn out to be a lynchpin of what we're building.
Post by: loyaljetsfan on April 20, 2021, 11:16:31 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 20, 2021, 11:19:31 AM
Just get rid of him. Alabama players never work out here...exception is Namath and maybe Q. Every other Bama player that put on a Jets jersey has been excrement
Cheer up bro, he'll be fine.
Post by: Badger on April 20, 2021, 11:20:37 AM
Just get rid of him. Alabama players never work out here...exception is Namath and maybe Q. Every other Bama player that put on a Jets jersey has been excrementBazillion dollars in dead cap if we do though. Just ride it out.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 20, 2021, 12:37:16 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 21, 2021, 09:07:23 PM
He's still only 28 and he's had 18 months to recover from a lifetime of football. Of course there's a risk that he's spent that time sitting at the end of a bar thinking about all the things he'd rather be doing than playing football, but he might also have spent that time getting his body into the best shape it has ever been. A completely healthy and refreshed Mosley playing for Robert Saleh could very easily turn out to be a lynchpin of what we're building.
he also became a vegan
Post by: Johnny English on April 21, 2021, 09:48:04 PM
he also became a vegan
Did he also dye his hair blue, get a nose piercing and insist on the pronoun "xe"? Are you worried he's gone soft?
Post by: Badger on April 21, 2021, 10:00:47 PM
Did he also dye his hair blue, get a nose piercing and insist on the pronoun "xe"? Are you worried he's gone soft?Lil Mos X
Post by: mj2sexay on April 22, 2021, 09:51:14 AM
Just get rid of him. Alabama players never work out here...exception is Namath and maybe Q. Every other Bama player that put on a Jets jersey has been excrement
Paul Crane was a fine Jet.
Post by: klaximilian on April 22, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Did he also dye his hair blue, get a nose piercing and insist on the pronoun "xe"? Are you worried he's gone soft?
I'd be worried he's lost strength at a position that requires a high-level of explosive power and strength.
Going vegan is sub-optimal for these purposes.
Post by: delavan on April 22, 2021, 10:47:55 AM
Just get rid of him. Alabama players never work out here...exception is Namath and maybe Q. Every other Bama player that put on a Jets jersey has been excrement
Marty Lyons
Post by: Johnny English on April 22, 2021, 11:36:54 AM
I'd be worried he's lost strength at a position that requires a high-level of explosive power and strength.
Going vegan is sub-optimal for these purposes.
Not sure I agree. There are a bunch of basketball and combat sports athletes who are vegan. I've no doubt it requires a level of planning and science that goes beyond "eat all the steak and pasta, lift all the weights", but I'm perfectly willing to believe that done correctly it will not only be effective but could also have some benefits.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 22, 2021, 11:44:10 AM
Just get rid of him. Alabama players never work out here...exception is Namath and maybe Q. Every other Bama player that put on a Jets jersey has been excrement
Ardarius Stewart
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 22, 2021, 11:45:02 AM
Not sure I agree. There are a bunch of basketball and combat sports athletes who are vegan. I've no doubt it requires a level of planning and science that goes beyond "eat all the steak and pasta, lift all the weights", but I'm perfectly willing to believe that done correctly it will not only be effective but could also have some benefits.
Vegan menu at Applebee’s leads to optimal gains
Post by: Johnny English on April 22, 2021, 11:55:48 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 22, 2021, 12:00:14 PM
Post by: klaximilian on April 22, 2021, 12:26:09 PM
Not sure I agree. There are a bunch of basketball and combat sports athletes who are vegan. I've no doubt it requires a level of planning and science that goes beyond "eat all the steak and pasta, lift all the weights", but I'm perfectly willing to believe that done correctly it will not only be effective but could also have some benefits.
Of course you are allowed to disagree. It doesn't make you correct, however.
While it's possible to maintain strength, power, and lean mass while consuming a Vegan diet, an athlete that is no longer in the development phase, but rather in maintenance phase (CJ Mosley would fall into this category) would need to meticulously follow a carefully structured vegan protocol, pretty much around the clock, or else risk deficiencies in protein and numerous micronutrients.
Inability to consume enough complete proteins, and protein amounts in total puts lean muscle tissue at risk. A loss of lean muscle overtime decreases maximal strength, which correlates to possibly decreased explosive power output. You now have linebacker in the middle of the field who can't drive with the same power as in his younger omnivore days if his diet isn't constantly in check.
Micronutrient deficiencies in zinc, Omega 3's, choline, B12, and iron can and will compromise health, which in itself impacts training, which impacts muscle retention, which can cascade into a variety of performance issues on the football field.
So while it's completely possible to remain at the top of your game, but without being 100% on top of a Vegan diet, there are far too many variables that can slip between the cracks and can go wrong that will hinder performance.
So let me once again say, the vegan diet is suboptimal for an NFL Linebacker, especially compared to his omnivorous counterparts.
We're not talking about Tom Brady here, someone who just sits back in the pocket and slings a football, we're talking about an NFL linebacker.
In regards to athletes and sports such as basketball and MMA/other combat sports, while there is a certain degree of explosive power and strength required, the sports rely a lot more on technique and skill, where an NFL linebacker has to have a combination of all of these, in addition to being a physical specimen of brute strength and force.
To your defense however, vegan diets have actually been shown to be beneficial for endurance sports and cardiovascular training. And I believe that's where you're a little more adept and familiar with so I can understand the confusion.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 22, 2021, 12:27:12 PM
Insufficient respect being placed on Greg McElroy's name here.
McCorkle McElroy
Post by: Badger on April 22, 2021, 12:34:42 PM
Of course you are allowed to disagree. It doesn't make you correct, however.Maybe inconvenient is a better word than suboptimal. But he's rich enough to easily overcome what would be difficult for a regular person to manage with a vegan diet.
While it's possible to maintain strength, power, and lean mass while consuming a Vegan diet, an athlete that is no longer in the development phase, but rather in maintenance phase (CJ Mosley would fall into this category) would need to meticulously follow a carefully structured vegan protocol, pretty much around the clock, or else risk deficiencies in protein and numerous micronutrients.
Inability to consume enough complete proteins, and protein amounts in total puts lean muscle tissue at risk. A loss of lean muscle overtime decreases maximal strength, which correlates to possibly decreased explosive power output. You now have linebacker in the middle of the field who can't drive with the same power as in his younger omnivore days if his diet isn't constantly in check.
Micronutrient deficiencies in zinc, Omega 3's, choline, B12, and iron can and will compromise health, which in itself impacts training, which impacts muscle retention, which can cascade into a variety of performance issues on the football field.
So while it's completely possible to remain at the top of your game, but without being 100% on top of a Vegan diet, there are far too many variables that can slip between the cracks and can go wrong that will hinder performance.
So let me once again say, the vegan diet is suboptimal for an NFL Linebacker, especially compared to his omnivorous counterparts.
We're not talking about Tom Brady here, someone who just sits back in the pocket and slings a football, we're talking about an NFL linebacker.
In regards to athletes and sports such as basketball and MMA/other combat sports, while there is a certain degree of explosive power and strength required, the sports rely a lot more on technique and skill, where an NFL linebacker has to have a combination of all of these, in addition to being a physical specimen of brute strength and force.
To your defense however, vegan diets have actually been shown to be beneficial for endurance sports and cardiovascular training. And I believe that's where you're a little more adept and familiar with so I can understand the confusion.
Post by: klaximilian on April 22, 2021, 12:40:13 PM
Maybe inconvenient is a better word than suboptimal. But he's rich enough to easily overcome what would be difficult for a regular person to manage with a vegan diet.
No, sub-optimal would be the correct term. I've never seen them use the term inconvenient when it comes to any scientific literature.
Sub-optimal implies there anything less than perfection on a very meticulously crafted vegan regimen could put him at a disadvantage. And no one's ever perfect with their diet regimen.
Not Tom Brady. Not anyone.
To error is to be human. These dudes are not robots.
Post by: Johnny English on April 22, 2021, 01:14:05 PM
No, sub-optimal would be the correct term. I've never seen them use the term inconvenient when it comes to any scientific literature.
Sub-optimal implies there anything less than perfection on a very meticulously crafted vegan regimen could put him at a disadvantage. And no one's ever perfect with their diet regimen.
Not Tom Brady. Not anyone.
To error is to be human. These dudes are not robots.
Not to split hairs then, but it sounds like you agree that in theory the diet works. It's just much harder to maintain in order to achieve the correct nutrient balance for a top level athlete than an omnivore diet.
Post by: klaximilian on April 22, 2021, 01:18:16 PM
Not to split hairs then, but it sounds like you agree that in theory the diet works. It's just much harder to maintain in order to achieve the correct nutrient balance for a top level athlete than an omnivore diet.
That is correct.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 22, 2021, 02:55:30 PM
Post by: Johnny English on April 22, 2021, 02:59:59 PM
I’m more concerned about Mosley losing his speed or conditioning than his strength.
I'm more concerned about whether he can be bothered playing football any more.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 22, 2021, 03:02:06 PM
I'm more concerned about whether he can be bothered playing football any more.
That’s Bob Salad’s job now
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 22, 2021, 04:15:47 PM
Adds he’s “chomping at the bit to get back on the field” and he’s excited to work with him.
On cue
Post by: Badger on April 22, 2021, 04:19:19 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 22, 2021, 04:24:10 PM
Robert Saleh said, regarding C.J. Mosley, his scheme doesn’t matter. “He’s going to fit.”
Adds he’s “chomping at the bit to get back on the field” and he’s excited to work with him.
On cue
Bob Salad...vegan diet...the math checks out.
Post by: Badger on April 22, 2021, 05:29:40 PM
Not to split hairs then, but it sounds like you agree that in theory the diet works. It's just much harder to maintain in order to achieve the correct nutrient balance for a top level athlete than an omnivore diet.
That is correct.And being rich negates everything that would actually make it difficult. So for Mosley it's "harder" in the sense that it's harder for me to carry two bags of groceries instead of one - a mild difference.
Post by: Johnny English on April 22, 2021, 05:55:24 PM
And being rich negates everything that would actually make it difficult. So for Mosley it's "harder" in the sense that it's harder for me to carry two bags of groceries instead of one - a mild difference.
He can literally hire a chef to make all his food, and possibly does. He's not exactly in "freak it, I've had eight pints and I'm smashing a Big Mac and a Dominos Meat Feast" territory.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 29, 2021, 10:18:11 PM
Joe Douglas is building a team like someone that’s not retarded would build a team. This might be a first in my lifetime type thing. Keep moving JD.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 10:21:27 PM
1st round LT, LG, QB on rookie contracts.Dougenius.
Joe Douglas is building a team like someone that’s not retarded would build a team. This might be a first in my lifetime type thing. Keep moving JD.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 10:23:01 PM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2021, 10:23:49 PM
I officially don't care what we do tomorrow.All kickers, babby
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 10:24:23 PM
All kickers, babbyFine. Do it. Someone has to beat out Ficken.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 10:35:08 PM
I officially don't care what we do tomorrow.This is how we felt last year after the first 2 rounds, and then we drafted James Morgan and Jabari Zuniga.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 10:39:01 PM
This is how we felt last year after the first 2 rounds, and then we drafted James Morgan and Jabari Zuniga.There. Is. Nothing. Wrong. With. Spending. A. 4th. Round. Pick. On. A. Developmental. Backup. QB.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2021, 10:40:24 PM
There. Is. Nothing. Wrong. With. Spending. A. 4th. Round. Pick. On. A. Developmental. Backup. QB.
Or a developmental pass rusher
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 10:42:49 PM
Or a developmental pass rusherI'm still very confused as to what Gase and Williams wanted to do with him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 10:44:20 PM
Post by: Laxin on April 29, 2021, 10:51:16 PM
Regardless, Douglas' picks in the first two rounds have all been offense so far with one to go. All have addressed needs and been meant to help a young quarterback.
Breath of fresh air compared to the previous decade
Post by: dcm1602 on April 29, 2021, 10:55:06 PM
But if we wiff on Wilson none of it matters.
JD will forever be tied to the pick
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2021, 10:57:58 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2021, 10:59:00 PM
I love the building the OL philosophy(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/75/df/e175df58889c623dd271f69078768348.gif)
But if we wiff on Wilson none of it matters.
JD will forever be tied to the pick
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2021, 11:16:29 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2021, 11:16:53 PM
I love the building the OL philosophy
But if we wiff on Wilson none of it matters.
JD will forever be tied to the pick
stick your head in the nearest ceiling fan.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 30, 2021, 12:01:39 AM
stick your head in the nearest ceiling fan.
It's not like I'm saying the dudes a bust
Gotta hope he's a beast
But Joe Douglas swung for the fences and the probabilities are what they are
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 12:04:02 AM
It's not like I'm saying the dudes a bust
Gotta hope he's a beast
But Joe Douglas swung for the fences and the probabilities are what they are
prrrrt
Post by: dcm1602 on April 30, 2021, 12:07:57 AM
That Zach Wilson's mom is pretty hot
Post by: MBGreen on April 30, 2021, 12:09:12 AM
I will say in Joe Douglas defense
That Zach Wilson's mom is pretty hot
her wizard sleeve pooped out like 6 kids
Post by: ScotlandJet on April 30, 2021, 04:41:28 AM
I will say in Joe Douglas defense
That Zach Wilson's mom is pretty hot
I would agree; She's very tidy.
Zach Wilson reminds me of a baby faced version of another great white hope Richard Todd.
Lets hope this is the guy ffs. It's been the longest time.
Post by: Coach K on April 30, 2021, 07:23:41 AM
It's not like I'm saying the dudes a bustTaking a new QB early in a regime change may reflect on your career longevity
Gotta hope he's a beast
But Joe Douglas swung for the fences and the probabilities are what they are
Only the hottest of hot takes for you DCM
Post by: Laxin on April 30, 2021, 10:32:20 AM
It's not like I'm saying the dudes a bust
Gotta hope he's a beast
But Joe Douglas swung for the fences and the probabilities are what they are
I'm not sure if "swing for the fences" is the right analogy here. He did the most logical thing, and he took the consensus #2 QB.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 03, 2021, 11:05:40 AM
1) Carolina Panthers (24.2)
2) New York Jets (24.7)
3) Minnesota Vikings (24.8)
4) Indianapolis Colts, Jacksonville Jaguars, Detroit Lions, and Pittsburgh Steelers (24.9)
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 03, 2021, 12:05:17 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on May 03, 2021, 01:39:09 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 07, 2021, 10:26:08 AM
https://twitter.com/BrianCoz/status/1390686518881234945
Post by: Badger on May 23, 2021, 07:41:27 AM
https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/05/21/jaguars-accidentally-leak-prospect-grades-for-new-york-jets-top-picks/
Post by: Heismanberg on May 23, 2021, 03:00:02 PM
Post by: Jumbo on May 23, 2021, 03:50:59 PM
How is Waddle a perfect prospect?
This Jaguars scouting team may not be the most reliable
Post by: SixFeetDeep on May 23, 2021, 09:15:50 PM
Post by: Johnny English on June 01, 2021, 08:24:06 AM
https://www.fantasyfootballmetrics.net/general-nfl-draft-reports/economically-grading-ranking-the-2021-nfl-draft-team-by-team-where-the-average-grade-is-a-d-60
Post by: dcm1602 on June 01, 2021, 04:11:49 PM
FF nerd who someone I know and respect when it comes to football thinks is the best analyst out there:
https://www.fantasyfootballmetrics.net/general-nfl-draft-reports/economically-grading-ranking-the-2021-nfl-draft-team-by-team-where-the-average-grade-is-a-d-60
It sounds like the crux of his reasoning for the Jets having the best draft is his thinking Zach Wilson is the best player in the draft. If he had made some kind argument for the entirety of the draft sure I could buy into it a little, but this ain't that
Post by: MexJetinBcn on June 02, 2021, 05:06:17 AM
It sounds like the crux of his reasoning for the Jets having the best draft is his thinking Zach Wilson is the best player in the draft. If he had made some kind argument for the entirety of the draft sure I could buy into it a little, but this ain't that
Wait, so if we picked the best player in the draft, who happens to play in the most important position in football, that wouldn't mean we didn't have the best draft? I'm a bit lost here.
Post by: dcm1602 on June 02, 2021, 04:47:22 PM
Wait, so if we picked the best player in the draft, who happens to play in the most important position in football, that wouldn't mean we didn't have the best draft? I'm a bit lost here.
No, I'm suggesting that the credibility of the website is my issue here.
Trevor Lawrence is universally panned as the greatest QB prospect and the savior of mankind.
Yet this website is saying nope that's Wilson, and Lawrence is that special and Jacksonvilles draft is good but not magical like ours.
We had a good, maybe a great draft but to start pretending our draft was historically good is just self stroking
Post by: MexJetinBcn on June 02, 2021, 05:54:35 PM
Post by: Gorilla on June 02, 2021, 06:39:33 PM
No, I'm suggesting that the credibility of the website is my issue here.
Trevor Lawrence is universally panned as the greatest QB prospect and the savior of mankind.
Yet this website is saying nope that's Wilson, and Lawrence is that special and Jacksonvilles draft is good but not magical like ours.
We had a good, maybe a great draft but to start pretending our draft was historically good is just self stroking
So your main point is that you don’t know what “panned” means. Got it.
Post by: dcm1602 on June 02, 2021, 06:57:15 PM
So your main point is that you don’t know what “panned” means. Got it.
Sorry
THE JETS HAD THE BEST DRAFT IN THE HISTORY OF ALL TIME GUYZ
HOW MANF HOF VOTES DO YOU THINK WILSON WILL GET THIS YEAR?
Post by: Badger on June 02, 2021, 07:05:05 PM
SorryZach Wilson will be panned into the HoF on his first ballot
THE JETS HAD THE BEST DRAFT IN THE HISTORY OF ALL TIME GUYZ
HOW MANF HOF VOTES DO YOU THINK WILSON WILL GET THIS YEAR?
Post by: dcm1602 on June 02, 2021, 08:41:50 PM
Post by: Badger on June 02, 2021, 08:46:26 PM
How do you expect me to be literate when I spend all this time reading excrement on this boardCheck out the car buying thread
Post by: SixFeetDeep on June 02, 2021, 09:30:09 PM
Sorry
THE JETS HAD THE BEST DRAFT IN THE HISTORY OF ALL TIME GUYZ
HOW MANF HOF VOTES DO YOU THINK WILSON WILL GET THIS YEAR?
Just say Panned and go
Post by: Derek Smalls on June 02, 2021, 11:19:26 PM
No, I'm suggesting that the credibility of the website is my issue here.Right, but if he doesn't think Trevor Lawrence is a great QB prospect, he's not obligated to grade him like he is because others do.
Trevor Lawrence is universally panned as the greatest QB prospect and the savior of mankind.
Yet this website is saying nope that's Wilson, and Lawrence is that special and Jacksonvilles draft is good but not magical like ours.
We had a good, maybe a great draft but to start pretending our draft was historically good is just self stroking
He also thinks their other 1st and 2nd-round picks were reaches.
Post by: reuben on June 02, 2021, 11:41:29 PM
FF nerd who someone I know and respect when it comes to football thinks is the best analyst out there:
https://www.fantasyfootballmetrics.net/general-nfl-draft-reports/economically-grading-ranking-the-2021-nfl-draft-team-by-team-where-the-average-grade-is-a-d-60
I'd love to read more to put the evaluation in some kind of context but every substantive article is paywalled.
Post by: delavan on June 04, 2021, 10:16:37 AM
I'd love to read more to put the evaluation in some kind of context but every substantive article is paywalled.Democracy dies in large$$e
Post by: Badger on July 08, 2021, 08:25:56 AM
Year 1 because of Wilson/Saleh or Year 2/3 because of Joe D?
Post by: Johnny English on July 08, 2021, 08:30:16 AM
What year of the rebuild do you all consider 2021 to be?
Year 1 because of Wilson/Saleh or Year 2/3 because of Joe D?
Year 2. Last year we dumped all the expensive vets we could, brought in either short term starters (Gore, Perriman, Desir) or medium term younger players with the potential to stick around (Fant, McGovern), and started a lot of younger players. The start of the rebuild IMO is when you rip the bandaid off, now we start the healing process.
Post by: MBGreen on July 08, 2021, 08:39:22 AM
What year of the rebuild do you all consider 2021 to be?
Year 1 because of Wilson/Saleh or Year 2/3 because of Joe D?
I'm going with Year 1....the clean slate didn't officially happen until Gase/Darnold were both fired into the sun.
Also, i had zero expectations last year despite it being Douglas's first full draft. Expectations are rising this year.
Post by: bojanglesman on July 08, 2021, 08:46:09 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on July 08, 2021, 10:11:02 AM
Honestly it's a rookie QB, so Joe Douglas has until year 4 maybe year 5 of Zach Wilson to prove whether he should remain here or not
Post by: CatoTheElder on July 08, 2021, 10:35:12 AM
What year of the rebuild do you all consider 2021 to be?
Year 1 because of Wilson/Saleh or Year 2/3 because of Joe D?
I guess year 1. For his first 2 seasons he was still building around Gase's team. This is a reset from that.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on July 08, 2021, 01:40:49 PM
It’s not a clean slate just because there’s a fresh coach. Douglas has made plenty of moves beforehand including Becton, Trading Jamal Adams, moving on from Sam Darnold, and others, for better or worse.
Most of that is semantics anyways. I think most people will have a pretty long leash with Douglas. All that said, a lot of his future is riding on how Zach Wilson turns out. A few short years ago a lot of people on here were praising Duff and Sam Darnold in a similar manner, before they had done anything.
Post by: AlioTheFool on July 09, 2021, 07:58:48 AM
Douglas has had time to make his own decisions, and a new coach semi-resets the clock to a 3 year plan. But if this isn't a legit playoff team going into 2023--rather than a "wildcard contender", Douglas has to be on thin ice.
Post by: Badger on July 17, 2021, 07:58:10 AM
https://twitter.com/rlangejets/status/1416169480858836998?s=19
Post by: Derek Smalls on July 20, 2021, 01:44:14 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 28, 2022, 09:33:20 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2022, 09:38:00 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1519662721314267137?s=21&t=enZzljxdsfhRcna2aLNnsw
in the words of Steiny: get hype
Post by: bojanglesman on April 28, 2022, 09:44:13 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2022, 09:47:48 AM
We may not even make the playoffs
I will be shocked if we make the playoffs
Post by: bojanglesman on April 28, 2022, 09:50:35 AM
I will be shocked if we make the playoffs
I agree, I just want to still be in the conversation in December. Hell, even November.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2022, 09:53:14 AM
I agree, I just want to still be in the conversation in December. Hell, even November.
We should be competitive in most games and will probably steal a couple. I just don't think we're better than Buffalo and any of the teams in the AFC West.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 28, 2022, 10:01:22 AM
https://twitter.com/nyjets/status/1519662721314267137?s=21&t=enZzljxdsfhRcna2aLNnsw
[/quote
Our AV crew has really upped their game. This and the Flight 2022 preview have me pumped as hell
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2022, 11:02:29 AM
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 02:47:04 PM
But I feel like half the freaking excrement on rotoworld the this week has been about the Jets.
And almost all of them are contradictory
Thibs seems to be the one thing I don't see, so I hope that's the direction we do go
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2022, 02:55:10 PM
rotoworld
Stop reading Rotoworld
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 03:26:23 PM
Stop reading Rotoworld
It's the simplest way to get a compilation of all the tweets and bullshit if you're not a social media person.
Hell they give you the links to the original sources so you can even avoid all their commentary
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2022, 04:05:31 PM
It's the simplest way to get a compilation of all the tweets and bullshit if you're not a social media person.
Hell they give you the links to the original sources so you can even avoid all their commentary
Click on the actual link to the source. Don't read their blurbs.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Click on the actual link to the source. Don't read their blurbs.
Generally I do both.
But regardless the point was that the Jets seemingly have more recent news than any team in the freaking league.
Hell the Jets might have more blurbs on there than the rest of the league combined. It's highly pecicular
Post by: mj2sexay on April 28, 2022, 04:12:08 PM
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 04:13:08 PM
I just had a freaking root canal about an hour ago and these next three hours are still going to be more painful.
booze, dude......stock up.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2022, 04:13:17 PM
And in this thread, we talk about how every bit of news has to do with the Jets.
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 04:14:34 PM
I love how in one thread we talk about how everything in the Jets is under wraps and no leaks.
And in this thread, we talk about how every bit of news has to do with the Jets.
You complain.....a lot.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 04:16:08 PM
I love how in one thread we talk about how everything in the Jets is under wraps and no leaks.
And in this thread, we talk about how every bit of news has to do with the Jets.
Well if there's like 7 completely different and contradictory rumors about the Jets, it's not unreasonable to think that most of them are wrong.
It also leads one to question whether this is smokescreen by the FO, or if because shits clamped down people are just speculating out their asses.
Or maybe everyone is just filling the void Manish left
Post by: mj2sexay on April 28, 2022, 04:20:03 PM
booze, dude......stock up.
If I wasn't worried about infection I'd already be hitting the Jets bowl, but I'm going to stick to gummies, lots of beer and pizza.
Post by: Gorilla on April 28, 2022, 04:20:36 PM
Generally I do both.
But regardless the point was that the Jets seemingly have more recent news than any team in the freaking league.
Hell the Jets might have more blurbs on there than the rest of the league combined. It's highly pecicular
It's actually not too pecicular (sic).
Jets blurbs regarding the draft are going to be more numerous, since the Jets have recently sucked and have picked higher and have been more active in the draft.
More importantly, Jets blurbs generate significant engagement and clicks compared to most teams. Jaguar blurbs do next to nothing, as there are about 18 fans of that team. Rotoworld especially relies on the "loljets" narrative.
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 04:21:30 PM
If I wasn't worried about infection I'd already be hitting the Jets bowl, but I'm going to stick to gummies, lots of beer and pizza.
nice work. Your tooth sacrifice should bring us Hutch.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2022, 04:21:55 PM
You complain.....a lot.I learned from you.
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 04:22:35 PM
I learned from you.
my only complaint is your bowlcut
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 04:24:19 PM
It's actually not too pecicular (sic).
Jets blurbs regarding the draft are going to be more numerous, since the Jets have recently sucked and have picked higher and have been more active in the draft.
More importantly, Jets blurbs generate significant engagement and clicks compared to most teams. Jaguar blurbs do next to nothing, as there are about 18 fans of that team. Rotoworld especially relies on the "loljets" narrative.
By that logic the Giants surely should be up there too. Their situation is eerily similar to ours, with a presumably larger following
Post by: Gorilla on April 28, 2022, 04:28:21 PM
By that logic the Giants surely should be up there too. Their situation is eerily similar to ours, with a presumably larger following
I do agree, and their situation looks bleaker than ours.
But "Lolgiants" is not currently a popular thing compared to our team.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2022, 04:46:40 PM
my only complaint is your bowlcutDon't hate me because I'm beautiful.
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2022, 05:01:39 PM
If I wasn't worried about infection I'd already be hitting the Jets bowl, but I'm going to stick to gummies, lots of beer and pizza.Debating gummy or no gummy tonight. Beer is a given.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 05:03:54 PM
Debating gummy or no gummy tonight. Beer is a given.
It's a draft night miracle.
You two coming together and agreeing on something.
Big things are in the air tonight
Post by: bojanglesman on April 28, 2022, 05:06:37 PM
It's a draft night miracle.
You two coming together and agreeing on something.
Big things are in the air tonight
Deebo confirmed.
Post by: Johnny English on April 28, 2022, 05:07:54 PM
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.
Mack, man, I love you but I can 100% guarantee that no one hates you because you're beautiful.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 28, 2022, 05:08:30 PM
Mack, man, I love you but I can 100% guarantee that no one hates you because you're beautiful.That's true. They love me because I'm beautiful. They hate me because I'm so smart.
Post by: Johnny English on April 28, 2022, 05:12:28 PM
That's true. They love me because I'm beautiful. They hate me because I'm so smart.
Mmmmm. I'm in an awesome mood because I've been drinking and listening to thrash metal all afternoon, so let's go with this.
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 05:14:20 PM
That's true. They love me because I'm beautiful. They hate me because I'm so smart.
Your self-awareness is worse than your bowlcut. #complaintNumber2
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 05:15:08 PM
Mmmmm. I'm in an awesome mood because I've been drinking and listening to thrash metal all afternoon, so let's go with this.
I'm in a great mood too because i'm dunking on Mack from my intellectual wheelchair.
Post by: Badger on April 28, 2022, 05:33:12 PM
It's a draft night miracle.Come to the tailgate
You two coming together and agreeing on something.
Big things are in the air tonight
Post by: Johnny English on April 28, 2022, 05:37:00 PM
Come to the tailgate
Do it dcm. Everyone who has never been to the tailgate needs to come. Everyone who has been already knows why.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 28, 2022, 05:40:28 PM
Come to the tailgate
This year's off the table because I'm down south and I'll be getting fucked royally hard by grad school this fall.
2023 is on the table though
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 28, 2022, 11:19:34 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 28, 2022, 11:21:40 PM
This year's off the table because I'm down south and I'll be getting fucked royally hard by grad school this fall.
2023 is on the table though
Ok we’ll come to you, dolpins tailgate this year
Post by: MBGreen on April 28, 2022, 11:26:38 PM
So proud to be a Jets fan rn
you're welcome
Post by: Heismanberg on April 28, 2022, 11:28:39 PM
Michael Carter
TREVON FUCKIN WESCO
Elijah Moore
Garrett Wilson
Corey Davis
CJ Uzomah
Tyler Conklin
lets go
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 28, 2022, 11:51:25 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2022, 06:56:39 AM
Zach Wilson
Michael Carter
TREVON FUCKIN WESCO
Elijah Moore
Garrett Wilson
Corey Davis
CJ Uzomah
Tyler Conklin
HoneyNutBerrios
lets go
FTFY
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2022, 08:21:10 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 29, 2022, 08:47:02 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 29, 2022, 08:47:34 AM
Post by: reuben on April 29, 2022, 09:17:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/rSBDirG.jpg)
Surely JFM is a starter on the interior.
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2022, 09:18:12 AM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2022, 10:07:57 AM
Surely JFM is a starter on the interior.I saw that and figured it's really gonna be more of a rotation.
Post by: Gorilla on April 29, 2022, 10:17:03 AM
Surely JFM is a starter on the interior.
Also, Reed didn't get that contract to be a back-up.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 10:19:29 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 10:20:03 AM
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2022, 10:20:47 AM
We desperately need help at LBYeah, that's the most obvious hole on the roster now.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 10:23:47 AM
RB
Developmental OT
Rotational DT
WR
Post by: Gorilla on April 29, 2022, 10:29:59 AM
We desperately need help at LB
Yep, so many options will be there at 38, I wouldn't be surprised by a small trade down.
Dean, Harris, Chenal...not to mention Brisker and Pitre at S, plenty of WRs if we want to double-dip.
I'm warming up to Breece as well.
Travis Jones/Winfrey would present nice value at DT. Again, awesome options.
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2022, 10:33:48 AM
Can Bryce Hall play safety?
I think he can definitely be the third safety we put on the field, at the least.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 10:44:34 AM
I think he can definitely be the third safety we put on the field, at the least.
Yeah, almost like a dime back that can matchup on passing downs.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2022, 10:45:17 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 10:46:29 AM
Yep, so many options will be there at 38, I wouldn't be surprised by a small trade down.
Dean, Harris, Chenal...not to mention Brisker and Pitre at S, plenty of WRs if we want to double-dip.
I'm warming up to Breece as well.
Travis Jones/Winfrey would present nice value at DT. Again, awesome options.
I'm wondering if they'll see Pitre is more valuable than a true LB because he can play in the box and cover
Post by: Gorilla on April 29, 2022, 10:50:54 AM
I keep forgetting MC2 exists. Hall certainly played well enough to start at corner this year, even though it's a crowded room.
Hey, no complaints if he can beat out Reed and Sauce. I don't see it as most likely outcome, but he does have familiarity of Jets' scheme on his side.
eta: actually I would complain a tiny bit, since significant resources (money and draft capital) were put into Reed and Sauce.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2022, 11:00:05 AM
Hey, no complaints if he can beat out Reed and Sauce. I don't see it as most likely outcome, but he does have familiarity of Jets' scheme on his side.
eta: actually I would complain a tiny bit, since significant resources (money and draft capital) were put into Reed and Sauce.
I figure we'd be in nickel so much that they'd all be playing damn near all the time anyway
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 29, 2022, 11:02:21 AM
Hey, no complaints if he can beat out Reed and Sauce. I don't see it as most likely outcome, but he does have familiarity of Jets' scheme on his side.
eta: actually I would complain a tiny bit, since significant resources (money and draft capital) were put into Reed and Sauce.
Reed on losing his starting job: God ultimately values the nickel position.
In all seriousness, MC2, Hall, Echols and Guidry all flashed some potential to play outside last season. This CB room should be in great shape for the next couple of seasons at least.
Post by: Gorilla on April 29, 2022, 11:04:43 AM
I figure we'd be in nickel so much that they'd all be playing damn near all the time anyway
That could be an option, if Reed plays nickel I guess over MCII.
Very nice problem to have, compared to recent seasons.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2022, 11:24:04 AM
LBI would also add a center. McGovern is an FA after the year. Would be nice to have a guy ready to take over in 2023.
RB
Developmental OT
Rotational DT
WR
But the best part about all the needs you posted (and center) is that none of the glaring needs are premium positions. Sure, we could use a WR or a DT or an OT, but we ideally don't need any of those guys to contribute much in 2022.
Cole Strange could be a center target on Day 3. (wait, he went round 1?)
Post by: Johnny English on April 29, 2022, 11:32:03 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 11:42:44 AM
But the best part about all the needs you posted (and center) is that none of the glaring needs are premium positions.
Douglas and Saleh filled our three biggest needs last night. All premium positions. Now we can use the rest of our picks on plugging holes/creating even more depth.
Linebacker has to be up there. Even if they like Quincy Williams, Phillips is still listed as a starter. Dean/Chenal/Harris/Andersen would be step right into that spot.
I think we're set at guard but we can upgrade Chuma Edoga/Connor McDermott at tackle.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2022, 11:43:41 AM
If the rookies are good, there aren't many glaring holes on the roster, and the ones that are are not premium positions.
- Linebacker is one for sure, but Mosley is still above average.
- Safety is one, though it might not be if Davis/Joyner can be a decent starter.
- Running back is one, but Carter is solid and this position is maybe the least important in the NFL
Quarterback is obviously a weakness until Zach Wilson develops, but if the light turns on for him, this roster can compete. It might still be a year away, but you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.
There aren't any position groups you can point to and call top-5 units, so that limits our short-term upside. We really need some of our recent draft picks to take big steps forward into becoming stars.
- Can Carl Lawson turn his advanced metrics into elite production? Can Quinnen Williams finally become a star?
- Can Elijah Moore or Garrett Wilson become a legitimate WR1, or can both become extremely good WR2s?
- Can AVT and/or Becton turn into Pro Bowl caliber OL?
- Can Sauce become a star?
- And most importantly...can Zach Wilson become a star?
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 11:44:01 AM
That could be an option, if Reed plays nickel I guess over MCII.
MC2 can also play safety.
Our special teams unit should be pretty damn good with all of the depth we have at DB now. We have some speedsters in Guidry and Echols.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 11:46:17 AM
Running back is one, but Carter is solid and this position is maybe the least important in the NFL
It's important in our offense. I know that SF didn't invest high picks or big money into the position, but we need another back. We can't go into the year with Ty Johnson and Tevin Coleman as the backups.
We need one more back. I don't really care what round we draft a back, but we do need another one.
101 is the sweet spot for a decent RB if we don't take Breece Hall at 38. Same can be said for LB if we don't end up with one in the second.
We're in a good spot.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2022, 11:48:33 AM
It's important in our offense. I know that SF didn't invest high picks or big money into the position, but we need another back. We can't go into the year with Ty Johnson and Tevin Coleman as the backups.Agreed. We need to upgrade the RB spot. But that's a spot where you don't need to invest a significant resource in to improve it. We really need to draft one. I think 101 is probably the best spot for that, but I'm not opposed to Hall at 38.
We need one more back. I don't really care what round we draft a back, but we do need another one.
101 is the sweet spot for a decent RB if we don't take Breece Hall at 38. Same can be said for LB if we don't end up with one in the second.
We're in a good spot.
Melvin Gordon signing took away one option in FA.
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 11:54:17 AM
We showed interest in Pierre Strong. He's the ideal back in our scheme.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2022, 11:54:19 AM
Post by: MBGreen on April 29, 2022, 11:58:55 AM
Tevin Coleman is good as a backup. Ty Johnson sucks.
I'd prefer we cut Ty Johnson before TC.
Post by: Johnny English on April 29, 2022, 12:20:49 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 12:21:45 PM
We may not have glaring holes at specific positions, but Gardner and JJ don't directly fix our run defense problem.
Johnson definitely helps
Post by: Johnny English on April 29, 2022, 12:31:22 PM
Johnson definitely helpsMore so indirectly because we'll play JFM inside presumably - my recollection of last season is that the issue was less with edge runs and more that we gave up holes in the middle and then missed in the second level becaue Quincy Williams doesn't know where to be most of the time.
Post by: insanity on April 29, 2022, 12:37:10 PM
More so indirectly because we'll play JFM inside presumably - my recollection of last season is that the issue was less with edge runs and more that we gave up holes in the middle and then missed in the second level becaue Quincy Williams doesn't know where to be most of the time.Jj is very good against the run
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 29, 2022, 12:39:00 PM
Post by: Heismanberg on April 29, 2022, 12:39:31 PM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on April 29, 2022, 12:40:37 PM
Post by: Jumbo on April 29, 2022, 12:47:32 PM
I think LB is our biggest need and there are plenty of options that should be there at 38 and could step in as day 1 starters
We drafted Sherwood/Nasirildeen last year - I realize they both sucked and Quincy also sucks, but I think all the smoke about the coaching staff not thinking LB is a huge weakness with those guys all developing was probably true. I'm expecting 38 to go elsewhere
Post by: Gorilla on April 29, 2022, 12:49:52 PM
I think LB is our biggest need and there are plenty of options that should be there at 38 and could step in as day 1 starters
Totally, and the names that have been mentioned a bunch would all be useful. Like many Jets fans, I think Dean at 38 would be a steal.
More so indirectly because we'll play JFM inside presumably - my recollection of last season is that the issue was less with edge runs and more that we gave up holes in the middle and then missed in the second level becaue Quincy Williams doesn't know where to be most of the time.
LB or Travis Jones would alleviate that.
Post by: bojanglesman on April 29, 2022, 12:50:43 PM
Post by: Gorilla on April 29, 2022, 12:55:23 PM
We drafted Sherwood/Nasirildeen last year - I realize they both sucked and Quincy also sucks, but I think all the smoke about the coaching staff not thinking LB is a huge weakness with those guys all developing was probably true. I'm expecting 38 to go elsewhere
That might be the case, haha, who knows. JD has been David Blaine with misdirection and smokescreens.
Gun to my head, my house on the line, and we keep pick 38...I will guess either Travis Jones or Pitre.
Or Dean? Please don't take my house.
Post by: Badger on April 29, 2022, 05:35:58 PM
Post by: d sw0rdz on April 29, 2022, 11:03:17 PM
that's awesome
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 29, 2022, 11:50:13 PM
Selfishly I would like to trade down so I have more picks to be excited for.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2022, 12:10:28 AM
Post by: Badger on April 30, 2022, 05:54:59 AM
Funny watching Saleh in the presser when asked if working the Senior Bowl helps scouting. Saleh said it was his 4th Senior Bowl and laughed. "Lot of rebuilds."The funny thing is if we had taken JJ 4th overall I would be cursing that damn exhibition game for inflating his value in the team's eyes. But we didn't, so it's cool.
Post by: dcm1602 on April 30, 2022, 04:57:46 PM
Who is most likely to be competitive at XROTY?
This doesn't have the feel of one of those drafts where a guy can/will slowly integrate into the team.
It seems like almost all of our core picks will immediately be front and center
Purely out of logistics I'd think Hall would be the most likely rookie of ours to get ROTY honors, simply because there's just way more top defensive prospects and theres no QBs expected to blow the roof off making OROTY less competitive
Post by: Gorilla on April 30, 2022, 05:04:13 PM
Who is most likely to be our biggest impact player as a rookie?
Who is most likely to be competitive at XROTY?
This doesn't have the feel of one of those drafts where a guy can/will slowly integrate into the team.
It seems like almost all of our core picks will immediately be front and center
Tough one.
I think GWilson and Breece will be our most immediate obvious impacts, as in the names we hear most on Sundays.
Post by: Libero_2 on April 30, 2022, 05:07:19 PM
Who is most likely to be our biggest impact player as a rookie?My guesses
Who is most likely to be competitive at XROTY?
This doesn't have the feel of one of those drafts where a guy can/will slowly integrate into the team.
It seems like almost all of our core picks will immediately be front and center
Biggest impact overall - Sauce, as teams don't throw enough at him to make him a DROY candidate.
OROY Candidate - Breece Hall - Plug and play RB1 with potential to dominate early if we can keep the Oline healthy
Wilson is solid but not 'elite' as a rookie. I'd guess 750 yards and 5 scores
JJ sets the edge well, and helps the run defense, and has a few flashes in the pass game but overall starts slow with 4-6 sacks before exploding in 2023 with double digits.
Serious question: Have we ever had the NFL OROY?
Post by: dcm1602 on April 30, 2022, 05:12:23 PM
My guesses
Biggest impact overall - Sauce, as teams don't throw enough at him to make him a DROY candidate.
OROY Candidate - Breece Hall - Plug and play RB1 with potential to dominate early if we can keep the Oline healthy
Wilson is solid but not 'elite' as a rookie. I'd guess 750 yards and 5 scores
JJ sets the edge well, and helps the run defense, and has a few flashes in the pass game but overall starts slow with 4-6 sacks before exploding in 2023 with double digits.
Serious question: Have we ever had the NFL OROY?
From a football perspective I don't have even a fraction of the knowledge to predict OROTY. However just looking at what players were drafted by what teams and when
It seems like Hall has to be one of if not the biggest favorite.
It seems like top offensive play makers either went to abysmal teams or are injured. And again no electric QB candidates.
The Chiefs and Packers both got wideout in the seconds, so depending on where they fall in the pecking order could instantly become centerpieces in the leaguet.
Just seems to me like there's way way more competition for DROTY this year than offense
Post by: Cane on April 30, 2022, 05:15:02 PM
JJ starting opposite a healthy Lawson and alongside a continuing to ascend Q means he should be in line for a lot of one on ones where he can wrack up sacks.
Breece can obviously have big numbers if he gets the bulk of the carries because catches should be there, too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: delavan on April 30, 2022, 05:39:09 PM
Serious question: Have we ever had the NFL OROY?No
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/awards/ap-offensive-rookie-of-the-year-award.htm
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2022, 07:24:13 PM
Who is most likely to be our biggest impact player as a rookie?Hall and Wilson both have legitimate chances at OROY if either one breaks out.
Who is most likely to be competitive at XROTY?
This doesn't have the feel of one of those drafts where a guy can/will slowly integrate into the team.
It seems like almost all of our core picks will immediately be front and center
Purely out of logistics I'd think Hall would be the most likely rookie of ours to get ROTY honors, simply because there's just way more top defensive prospects and theres no QBs expected to blow the roof off making OROTY less competitive
This might be the most wide open OROY race after the draft in terms of odds that I have ever seen. No QB taken until 20. No round 1 RB. Six receivers taken right around each other with none considered clearly the best. Hall has a better chance than Wilson for me, but it's close. Don't expect either to win, but both have a chance.
Johnson has shorter odds to be DROY than Gardner. Either one has a chance. Pass rusher is more likely to get the edge, since it's hard for a CB to put up big numbers, and that's usually what you need. Obviously, if he puts up Trevon Diggs style numbers, he has a shot.
Post by: Derek Smalls on April 30, 2022, 07:26:45 PM
Drake London: 5-1
Burks: 7-1
Pickett: 7-1
Breece Hall: +750
Garrett Wilson: 8-1
Kenneth Walker: 10-1
Jameson Williams: 11-1
Malik Willis: 11-1
DROY odds
Hutchinson +350
Thibodeaux 4-1
Travon Walker 5-1
Jermaine Johnson 9-1
Lloyd 9-1
Quay Walker 9-1
Ahmad Gardner 10-1
Stingley 10-1
Kyle Hamilton 11-1
Jordan Davis 12-1
Post by: CatoTheElder on April 30, 2022, 08:22:18 PM
Who is most likely to be our biggest impact player as a rookie?
Who is most likely to be competitive at XROTY?
This doesn't have the feel of one of those drafts where a guy can/will slowly integrate into the team.
It seems like almost all of our core picks will immediately be front and center
Purely out of logistics I'd think Hall would be the most likely rookie of ours to get ROTY honors, simply because there's just way more top defensive prospects and theres no QBs expected to blow the roof off making OROTY less competitive
If Zach is going to keep making the non-scripted plays happen, Ruckert has to be up there as team ROTY if he can get the playing time.
Post by: Badger on May 01, 2022, 10:58:05 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 01, 2022, 12:23:21 PM
https://twitter.com/Michael_Nania/status/1520462358191255553?t=nafvDVKXmUcUwzCOamtK6g&s=19
Post by: casman02 on May 01, 2022, 07:01:53 PM
https://twitter.com/RNBWCV/status/1520780735010988034/photo/1
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 01, 2022, 07:06:07 PM
stingley is a better fit scheme wise for the texans D than sauce is, but i wonder what we would have done. would we have been in on stingley?
i would have been fine with london as our pick, but wanted wilson more. if no garrett at 10 it seems JJ would have been the pick there, but i think a yield of stingley/JJ at 4/10 has a drastically different outlook than the 1st round we were able to come away with
Post by: dcm1602 on May 01, 2022, 07:11:25 PM
Draft grades dont matter, but this very, very fun
https://twitter.com/RNBWCV/status/1520780735010988034/photo/1
Being at the top is nice, but new England and Miami being among the very worst only adds to it
Post by: Libero_2 on May 01, 2022, 08:47:26 PM
Being at the top is nice, but new England and Miami being among the very worst only adds to it
Agreed
Post by: CatoTheElder on May 01, 2022, 08:50:24 PM
Being at the top is nice, but new England and Miami being among the very worst only adds to it
Also yes.
Post by: Libero_2 on May 01, 2022, 08:51:23 PM
what would we have done if the falcons drafted garrett and if the texans drafted sauce
stingley is a better fit scheme wise for the texans D than sauce is, but i wonder what we would have done. would we have been in on stingley?
i would have been fine with london as our pick, but wanted wilson more. if no garrett at 10 it seems JJ would have been the pick there, but i think a yield of stingley/JJ at 4/10 has a drastically different outlook than the 1st round we were able to come away with
We know for sure that 3 of the top 8 are Sauce, Wilson and JJ. It can be reasonably assumed that Hutchinson and Walker are also on there. Most likely with Ekwonu. That puts us at 6 out of the top 8.
I’d wager based on the comment the other night that if Wilson had gone at 8, we would have taken Jj, no other receiver was top 8 for us.
Which means the top candidates for the other two spots are Neal, Stingley, Cross and Thibideaux. Given that the rumors flying around predraft is that we wouldn’t have taken Thibs at 10, which means he was at best 11 on our board. Which means I would assume we didn’t have all those tackles in our top 8. I think Stingley is quite probably the most likely lock in our top 8 and I’d wager is probably 6
My guess at the board
Hutch
Sauce
Walker
Ikwonu
Wilson
Stingley
Cross
Johnson
Post by: Badger on May 01, 2022, 09:58:37 PM
what would we have done if the falcons drafted garrett and if the texans drafted sauceI don't know what the Jets would have done but I'd have taken KT and Jamo.
stingley is a better fit scheme wise for the texans D than sauce is, but i wonder what we would have done. would we have been in on stingley?
i would have been fine with london as our pick, but wanted wilson more. if no garrett at 10 it seems JJ would have been the pick there, but i think a yield of stingley/JJ at 4/10 has a drastically different outlook than the 1st round we were able to come away with
Post by: Heismanberg on May 01, 2022, 10:05:48 PM
I don't know what the Jets would have done but I'd have taken KT and Jamo.
I think we would’ve taken Stingley and JJ
Saleh said we would’ve drafted JJ if ATL took Wilson instead of London
Post by: bojanglesman on May 02, 2022, 09:10:20 AM
Gut feeling says Hall.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 02, 2022, 09:19:26 AM
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2022, 09:23:27 AM
Better steal: Breece Hall or Jermaine Johnson?
Gut feeling says Hall.
Jermaine Johnson
Clemons could be a massive steal because he's plays a premium position. Odds are against him, but he's tailor-made for our scheme and he was really productive in the top conference.
Post by: Heismanberg on May 02, 2022, 09:23:47 AM
Hall wasn't really a steal. He was projected to go in the late 30-s, and we got him at 36. And for a running back to be a steal at 35, he basically needs to be a Pro Bowler.
I'll take 1500+ all-purpose yards every year
Post by: Laxin on May 02, 2022, 10:37:28 AM
Hall wasn't really a steal. He was projected to go in the late 30-s, and we got him at 36. And for a running back to be a steal at 35, he basically needs to be a Pro Bowler.
If Hall was a prospect 10 years ago he probably goes top 10. It’s likely the Jets had Hall in their top 20-25 players overall since they were reportedly trying to trade up for him in the last first round. Running backs have just been devalued (and imo unjustly) over the past 10 years that someone of Halls talent is now considered a late 1st/early 2nd round prospect.
I don’t really see why his outlook as a potential 2nd round steal would be any different than all of the other 2nd rounders. I’d think Hall has a much higher chance at hitting than most players taken around him.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 02, 2022, 12:08:39 PM
If Hall was a prospect 10 years ago he probably goes top 10. It’s likely the Jets had Hall in their top 20-25 players overall since they were reportedly trying to trade up for him in the last first round. Running backs have just been devalued (and imo unjustly) over the past 10 years that someone of Halls talent is now considered a late 1st/early 2nd round prospect.All I'm saying is that the bar for him to be a steal is much greater.
I don’t really see why his outlook as a potential 2nd round steal would be any different than all of the other 2nd rounders. I’d think Hall has a much higher chance at hitting than most players taken around him.
An extreme example is kicker/punter. If you draft a kicker/punter in the 4th round, you expect them to be among the best at their positions. If you draft an OL in the 4th round, you're happy if he becomes a quality backup or low-end starter.
It's hard to be a steal at running back at 36th overall because the bar for it being a successful pick is higher. I'm not saying it's a bad pick because Hall is the best RB in the draft. But my definition of a steal is someone who should have been drafted way earlier.
Post by: Andrew Ryan on May 02, 2022, 12:11:37 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 02, 2022, 01:01:42 PM
JJ was unquestionably the bigger steal. NFL Twitter Analytics has its panties all in a twist because we traded away a 5th round pick to move up for Hall.When the trade happened, I was surprised we didn't get a late pick back. We got a slightly bad deal on the draft value chart to move up 2 spots. But clearly, the Jets didn't value the back-end of the draft all that much, and a 5th-round pick isn't a huge loss in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 02, 2022, 06:04:29 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 02, 2022, 06:16:15 PM
Hall wasn't really a steal. He was projected to go in the late 30-s, and we got him at 36. And for a running back to be a steal at 35, he basically needs to be a Pro Bowler.I probably should have asked which one would be more productive this year.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 02, 2022, 06:18:35 PM
I probably should have asked which one would be more productive this year.
Assuming everyone's healthy I'd imagine there's a very high chance hall is our most productive rookie. Unless Carter goes God mode this year
As a matter of fact outside of injuries id think Carter would be the only reason hall isn't
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 02, 2022, 06:28:24 PM
I probably should have asked which one would be more productive this year.I think Hall has a chance to be really productive right away. Our offensive line has a chance to be good if healthy, and highly touted running backs often have success early. I love Carter, but Hall is a better prospect and probably better suited for the bigger role.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 04, 2022, 05:26:12 PM
Both when it comes to starting talent and depth?
With the draft done and potential trades/cuts on the horizon, I'm wondering what the biggest opportunities should be.
Presumably were still desperate for LB help at the top?
Post by: Libero_2 on May 04, 2022, 05:32:26 PM
Take a look at the roster and tell us what you think
Post by: reuben on May 04, 2022, 05:55:49 PM
What would you say the Jets biggest needs are at this point, for this coming season specifically.
LB, FS, C
I really didn't like anything I saw from Sherwood last year, but it will be interesting to see what Hamsah Nasirildeen can bring to the table after a full off-season. I'm betting not much, but I'd very much like to be pleasantly surprised.
Post by: dcm1602 on May 05, 2022, 06:54:42 PM
After the Jets draft class their projected win total for this coming season increased by 2.5 games, making the largest increase for a team that didn't draft a QB ever
(FWIW they're only projected to win 7.2 games now)
Post by: d sw0rdz on May 08, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 08, 2022, 01:34:52 PM
are you guys losers also? or are you not continually re-watching all of our draft pick announcements/reactions/analyses on both the espn and nfln streams?I've watched a bunch of them. Trying to space it out some since we have 2.5 more months of nothingness leading up to training camp.
Post by: Gorilla on May 08, 2022, 01:55:48 PM
are you guys losers also? or are you not continually re-watching all of our draft pick announcements/reactions/analyses on both the espn and nfln streams?
Loser confirmed lol. I've watched them all several times.
I've also re-watched Zach Wilson's pro day many times, as recently as last week THIS IS NOT A CRY FOR HELP...
Post by: bojanglesman on May 10, 2022, 06:13:42 PM
Offense:
Breece Hall
Garrett Wilson
CJ Uzomah
Tyler Conklin
Laken Tomlinson
Mekhi Becton
Defense:
Carl Lawson
Vinny Clotty
Solomon Thomas
Jermaine Johnson
Sauce
Lamarcus Joyner
Jordan Whitehead
DJ Reed
4 of these are players we lost due to injury.
Post by: Derek Smalls on May 10, 2022, 06:19:37 PM
Another way to look at this team's 1 year change.....upgraded starting-caliber players that we didn't have last year and now do:Vinny Curry isn't a starter in the NFL (I would put Jacob Martin instead), but it's a nice influx of talent.
Offense:
Breece Hall
Garrett Wilson
CJ Uzomah
Tyler Conklin
Laken Tomlinson
Mekhi Becton
Defense:
Carl Lawson
Vinny Clotty
Solomon Thomas
Jermaine Johnson
Sauce
Lamarcus Joyner
Jordan Whitehead
DJ Reed
4 of these are players we lost due to injury.
Post by: Badger on May 11, 2022, 01:47:49 PM
Post by: insanity on May 11, 2022, 03:47:45 PM
We've either assembled a group of young players who always know exactly the right thing to say or the Jets employ an elite PR coaching squad.There is no way our pr staff is that good. These are great kids. Except Michael Clemons, that dudes a man
Post by: Badger on May 11, 2022, 05:48:29 PM
Post by: bojanglesman on May 11, 2022, 07:00:06 PM
(https://i.redd.it/k12rmkqbxvy81.jpg)(https://c.tenor.com/mi-PAUdLtTsAAAAC/dave-chappelle-rick-james.gif)
Post by: Libero_2 on May 11, 2022, 08:01:10 PM
God I’m so glad we are investing in the freaking offense these days
Post by: Badger on October 16, 2022, 08:24:48 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221017/59b712a39d59b9f65baebb5a27bebf36.jpg)
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 16, 2022, 08:42:15 PM
I was annoyed that the defense was a trainwreck under his watch last year. But this year, it's been great.
Post by: Badger on October 16, 2022, 08:51:30 PM
I'm still not fully sold on Saleh being a great coach, but he doesn't need to be a great coach to win. He seems competent. Even if he's Herm Edwards 2.0, you can win with that.
I was annoyed that the defense was a trainwreck under his watch last year. But this year, it's been great.
Well, last year's defense didn't have Lawson, Reed, Gardner, JJ, Kwon, Whitehead, Joyner*...
Post by: Derek Smalls on October 16, 2022, 09:20:32 PM
No doubt. And that's why I didn't give up on him after a year. But when you're a defensive coach, and you preside over the worst defense in team hisory, it's not a great look.
Well, last year's defense didn't have Lawson, Reed, Gardner, JJ, Kwon, Whitehead, Joyner*...
The hope was with added talent that he would start to prove himself, and that has become the case.
This was an awesome defensive performance. One of the best we've had during the dark ages.
Post by: reuben on October 17, 2022, 01:34:18 AM
We doin it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221017/59b712a39d59b9f65baebb5a27bebf36.jpg)
That portrait is hilarious.
Post by: Badger on October 17, 2022, 04:37:10 AM
That portrait is hilarious."We spent an hour shading the cheekbones"
Post by: delavan on October 17, 2022, 09:36:39 AM
Post by: SixFeetDeep on January 09, 2023, 11:18:55 AM
Tons of other young players with talent and potential.
Find a starting QB, Repair the OL yet again, continue to find a few more studs in the draft, and let’s go to the playoffs.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 11:24:30 AM
Been a while since we had players as good as Sauce and Garrett Wilson. Praying they’re healthy, AVT and Breece as well.
Tons of other young players with talent and potential.
Find a starting QB, Repair the OL yet again, continue to find a few more studs in the draft, and let’s go to the playoffs.
We need to be better with pro scouting. Our free agent signings have been pretty rough.
Post by: MexJetinBcn on January 09, 2023, 11:26:19 AM
Post by: bojanglesman on January 09, 2023, 11:27:55 AM
This is a playoff team with average QB play.
Post by: Johnny English on January 09, 2023, 11:31:33 AM
Well, DJ Reed was very good, Kwon Alexander played well, Carl Lawson was unlucky IMO. The problem has been (again) mostly on offense.
Whitehead was also OK, and the TEs were serviceable - it's not their fault that they didn't get targeted properly and spent way too much time playing as auxiliary linemen because our tackles were so bad/broken.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 11:35:22 AM
Kwon Alexander played well
I'm not counting Alexander or Brown because they were basically signed off the scrapheap in the preseason.
I'd like to see Kwon return if the money is reasonable.
Post by: Heismanberg on January 09, 2023, 11:36:09 AM
Whitehead was also OK, and the TEs were serviceable - it's not their fault that they didn't get targeted properly and spent way too much time playing as auxiliary linemen because our tackles were so bad/broken.
Whitehead was bad against the run and both TEs struggles as blockers.
Being outbid for Marcus Williams hurt us because we had to stick with Lamarcus Joyner.
Post by: Derek Smalls on January 09, 2023, 11:37:37 AM
Been a while since we had players as good as Sauce and Garrett Wilson. Praying they’re healthy, AVT and Breece as well.Our roster is interesting right now. We have supreme high level talent. Sauce, AVT, Breece, Quinnen and even Reed have played at Pro Bowl or All-Pro levels, and Garrett appears like he will get there as soon as next year.
Tons of other young players with talent and potential.
Find a starting QB, Repair the OL yet again, continue to find a few more studs in the draft, and let’s go to the playoffs.
We have lots of holes around them. But that's a good start. If we find the right pieces, we can win a lot of games next season. If we don't, we could fall apart at the seams.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on September 12, 2023, 04:57:08 PM
Go to the playoffs.
Draft an OT with our first rounder. Reload at WR and OL. Figure out if we can bring back Zach, need to draft a QB, or bring in some other type of stopgap until Rodgers is healthy.
Win the whole damn thing.
Post by: Badger on November 13, 2023, 10:26:58 AM
The difference of a single play per game could literally have this team as bad as 1-8 or as good as 7-2. If you really want to stretch it, while the margin of victory in Denver was two scores, the Broncos were on a potential game-winning drive before the Hall TD put it away, so even that wasn't a convincing win.
I don't like to hold bad things that didn't happen against the team or a player but it's noticeable how thin of a tightrope this team is on.
Would Rodgers have been enough to cover up some deficiencies? This year's painfully small sample size didn't give us any reason to think so.
A lot of it is injuries to be sure, and we would certainly look better with a fully healthy roster but for some of these guys, where do we draw the line and say the injuries are not just isolated incidents but part of that player's whole deal?
I don't think we have any room to reset, as long as Rodgers is here and intends on returning then the only way out is forward, but this team has to make some shrewd decisions this off-season. We are still in win-now mode but the season without Rodgers so far shows we weren't fully loaded.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 13, 2023, 10:43:16 AM
It's so hard to get a read on where this team is (other than knowing they're not good enough yet).Team feels like it's in the same spot it was last season. Great defense, a couple nice skill players, but a bad OL and a bad QB. I think with Rodgers, we are 6-3 if he's healthy, but who knows if he would be healthy. Going from inept to average as a passing game is a big upgrade.
The difference of a single play per game could literally have this team as bad as 1-8 or as good as 7-2. If you really want to stretch it, while the margin of victory in Denver was two scores, the Broncos were on a potential game-winning drive before the Hall TD put it away, so even that wasn't a convincing win.
I don't like to hold bad things that didn't happen against the team or a player but it's noticeable how thin of a tightrope this team is on.
Would Rodgers have been enough to cover up some deficiencies? This year's painfully small sample size didn't give us any reason to think so.
A lot of it is injuries to be sure, and we would certainly look better with a fully healthy roster but for some of these guys, where do we draw the line and say the injuries are not just isolated incidents but part of that player's whole deal?
I don't think we have any room to reset, as long as Rodgers is here and intends on returning then the only way out is forward, but this team has to make some shrewd decisions this off-season. We are still in win-now mode but the season without Rodgers so far shows we weren't fully loaded.
Post by: Heismanberg on November 13, 2023, 11:01:24 AM
Team feels like it's in the same spot it was last season.
We are the same team. The only upgrade we made was Aaron Rodgers.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2023, 11:30:14 AM
It's so hard to get a read on where this team is (other than knowing they're not good enough yet).
The difference of a single play per game could literally have this team as bad as 1-8 or as good as 7-2. If you really want to stretch it, while the margin of victory in Denver was two scores, the Broncos were on a potential game-winning drive before the Hall TD put it away, so even that wasn't a convincing win.
I don't like to hold bad things that didn't happen against the team or a player but it's noticeable how thin of a tightrope this team is on.
Would Rodgers have been enough to cover up some deficiencies? This year's painfully small sample size didn't give us any reason to think so.
A lot of it is injuries to be sure, and we would certainly look better with a fully healthy roster but for some of these guys, where do we draw the line and say the injuries are not just isolated incidents but part of that player's whole deal?
I don't think we have any room to reset, as long as Rodgers is here and intends on returning then the only way out is forward, but this team has to make some shrewd decisions this off-season. We are still in win-now mode but the season without Rodgers so far shows we weren't fully loaded.
Finally, a good post ☕️
The only thing more painful that what we’re currently going through would be Rodgers actually playing and the team only being marginally better than this
Post by: AlioTheFool on November 13, 2023, 11:40:30 AM
We are the same team. The only upgrade we made was Aaron Rodgers.
In hindsight, how do you feel about the WMD pick?
For me, it's completely negligent. Possibly a very good player but a terrible pick by Douglas.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 13, 2023, 11:40:52 AM
Finally, a good post ☕️And we don't know how good Rodgers is. Last year, he wasn't that good. I think our skill talent is better than what Rodgers had last year, but it's not great. And the OL is terrible.
The only thing more painful that what we’re currently going through would be Rodgers actually playing and the team only being marginally better than this
But we don't need Rodgers to be vintage Rodgers. He can be 2022 Tom Brady who was washed, and that's still an upgrade.
Post by: Derek Smalls on November 13, 2023, 11:41:58 AM
In hindsight, how do you feel about the WMD pick?I was fine with the pick at the time. In retrospect, I wish we took JSN (or Addison), but it's hard for me to get too upset over drafting an edge rusher. That is a premium position.
For me, it's completely negligent. Possibly a very good player but a terrible pick by Douglas.
Post by: SixFeetDeep on November 13, 2023, 11:47:35 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 26, 2023, 10:45:14 AM
Another interesting one is Tomlinson. He's HORRIBLE, his cap number next year is around 19 million and his dead money number is over 10 million. He'd save us 8 million if we cut him though and at this point I think it'd be worth it.
Uzomah's contract is also excrement. He'll be cut and will cost us 5 million. Absurd. And let's not start with Lazard, although he'll get a Rodgers-mulligan for sure. Lawson will be cut post June 1, and will cost us only over 1 million.
Other than that, not much more to talk about. Mosley might get restructured, just for cap purposes, though I don't really see him staying after next season. We might be able to add two or three good players, but don't have the money to go crazy or anything either.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 26, 2023, 10:51:05 AM
I'm looking at the salary cap numbers and Zach Wilson's contract will bite us in the derriere. He's due to make 11 million all guaranteed. I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed, because I don't see anyone who would get him at that price in a trade and we're in no position to part with draft picks to sweeten the deal. And spending 11 million + Rodgers at the QB position makes it hard for us to get someone else.
Another interesting one is Tomlinson. He's HORRIBLE, his cap number next year is around 19 million and his dead money number is over 10 million. He'd save us 8 million if we cut him though and at this point I think it'd be worth it.
Uzomah's contract is also excrement. He'll be cut and will cost us 5 million. Absurd. And let's not start with Lazard, although he'll get a Rodgers-mulligan for sure. Lawson will be cut post June 1, and will cost us only over 1 million.
Other than that, not much more to talk about. Mosley might get restructured, just for cap purposes, though I don't really see him staying after next season. We might be able to add two or three good players, but don't have the money to go crazy or anything either.
I believe the acquiring team for Zach would take on about $4.5 million in cap liability (making it easier to trade him than $11 million).
Tomlinson is headed for a restructure to cut that cap hit by a good chunk of $4-$6 million or he will be cut, because you can absolutely get a starting level guard just as bad as him for the savings and still use some to help elsewhere. There is nothing we can do with Lazard and Lawson should have been moved at the deadline, but at least Lawson is only a smidgeon on the books next season.
All I can say is if you think it looks bad now, wait until you see the 2025-202-6 books will all the excrement we are about to pull to acquire every piece we can this offseason.
Post by: Heismanberg on December 26, 2023, 10:51:24 AM
Post by: Jumbo on December 26, 2023, 10:52:06 AM
Cap isn't real
no cap
Post by: bojanglesman on December 26, 2023, 11:39:16 AM
Post by: MexJetinBcn on December 26, 2023, 12:05:37 PM
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2023, 12:11:33 PM
Lazard's contract is the worst of all of them. I'm hoping Rodgers can dust the excrement off of him and make him look at least average next year, because we are stuck with him through next year.
Hey Joe, come check out this thing I found behind the tool shed!
Post by: bojanglesman on December 26, 2023, 12:34:47 PM
Cap is real. The Saints have lost a lot of players in the last few years and they haven't really been able to be competitive in a while. The Rams are now playing with 3 studs and 50 nobodies (who turned out to be good thanks to McVay). There are teams that navigate it better in the short term but in the long term it's more than real.
If a team can draft really well, it masks some of the cap problems for a while.
The Saints have a few guys they have had for 800 years and just signed them to absurd contracts that they push down the road every year. They have to do that at this point, they can't create cap space any other way. Cam Jordan, Kamara, Ramczyk, Peat, Lattimore, all lifers there, 7 + years. Eventually these guys and others won't be there anymore and will fall on the dead money pile. Admittedly, they've been at this game for a long time, but threading the needle gets harder every year. Every year they either have to have a good draft with multiple day 1 starters, rely an abnormal amount on old players, or just suck at a position. Drew Brees also covered their derriere a lot. They've been mediocre at best for 3 years now.
That being said, there are plenty of other teams that manage the cap well and suck just as bad or worse, so that method isn't much better either.
Post by: Johnny English on December 26, 2023, 12:55:52 PM
Post by: Libero_2 on December 26, 2023, 04:31:15 PM
The Saints are something like $90M over the cap for next year as things stand.
And they have been for years. Yet going back to like 2010 they have been a competitive group right up until Brees aged out of effectiveness. Since then they haven’t been good, but just dropped $150 million on Carr (only to watch him suck)
My larger point is not “We can be the saints!” It’s “if the saints can keep pushing things around to continue adding pieces, we can too. And I fully expect us to do it this offseason.
Post by: CatoTheElder on December 26, 2023, 05:31:27 PM
I'm committed to dying on this hill and already have my grave site picked out.
Post by: Derek Smalls on December 26, 2023, 06:01:03 PM
And they have been for years. Yet going back to like 2010 they have been a competitive group right up until Brees aged out of effectiveness. Since then they haven’t been good, but just dropped $150 million on Carr (only to watch him suck)I'm not worried at all about the Jets ability to create cap space this offseason. They have ways to clear money. And like you said, the Saints have done similar to this for years.
My larger point is not “We can be the saints!” It’s “if the saints can keep pushing things around to continue adding pieces, we can too. And I fully expect us to do it this offseason.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 26, 2023, 06:02:05 PM
And they have been for years. Yet going back to like 2010 they have been a competitive group right up until Brees aged out of effectiveness. Since then they haven’t been good, but just dropped $150 million on Carr (only to watch him suck)
My larger point is not “We can be the saints!” It’s “if the saints can keep pushing things around to continue adding pieces, we can too. And I fully expect us to do it this offseason.
Lots of teams push contracts for a playoff run. The Saints think that is every year.
Post by: bojanglesman on December 26, 2023, 06:03:47 PM
I'm not worried at all about the Jets ability to create cap space this offseason. They have ways to clear money. And like you said, the Saints have done similar to this for years.
Yep, they can do what they need. They don't need to do much on the defensive side. It's basically 70% offensive line.
Post by: Libero_2 on December 26, 2023, 07:03:18 PM
Lots of teams push contracts for a playoff run. The Saints think that is every year.
Yes. And for us, that year is absolutely next year. We haven’t done much if any gymnastics just yet. If we want to go for it, we have a excrement ton of gymnastics we can do instead to really go crazy this off-season