Jet Offensive
Collegiate Football => The NFL Draft => Topic started by: MBGreen on January 11, 2022, 07:07:32 AM
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All Aboard!
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I’m in.
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There’s also room on the Cine Train
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There’s also room on the Cine Train
hopefully both freight trains will arrive at Penn St on draft day.
Cine is a beauty
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https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1480625647303200769?s=20
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This is the most hyped I’ve been for an LB pre-draft since Vilma.
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I'm def on board.
Question: If Lloyd AND Dean are available at 10 (which they likely will be) who do you want?
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I'm def on board.
Question: If Lloyd AND Dean are available at 10 (which they likely will be) who do you want?
Dean, no question
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I'm def on board.
Question: If Lloyd AND Dean are available at 10 (which they likely will be) who do you want?
I will give my opinion after their respective pro days.
EDIT: Nvm...after chatting with Heis, the correct answer is Linderbaum
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I'd take Dean at 10 and heavily consider Channing Tindall with one of our second rounds.
When that kid shows up to the combine and runs a 4.4 (or better) I won't be surprised.
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I will give my opinion after their respective pro days.
Pro Days should not matter for linebackers
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Pro Days should not matter for linebackers
It's just so early in the offseason...i like to have all the info. Including what we do in FA.
EDIT: I used "pro days" as more of a date marker...because it's usually the last thing to happen before the draft.
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A few years ago the draft process loved Devin White and then it was Roquan Smith. In the next 3 months the Namobe Dean hype train is going to be absolutely insane IMO
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If we go Dean at 10...who do you want at 4?
WR/EDGE/OL?
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I will give my opinion after their respective pro days.
EDIT: Nvm...after chatting with Heis, the correct answer is Linderbaum
We're all doing the Lindy Hop
https://youtu.be/VjAoG3fgjkc
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If we go Dean at 10...who do you want at 4?
WR/EDGE/OL?
seeing as we have no chance at the top 2 EDGE players....i want WR then OL.
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I'd take Dean at 10 and heavily consider Channing Tindall with one of our second rounds.
When that kid shows up to the combine and runs a 4.4 (or better) I won't be surprised.
I fully expect us to sign an LB in FA like we did Jarrod Davis. That said signing a dude like Anthony Walker of Vander Esch should not in any way stop us from drafting both of these god damn monsters in the making
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If we go Dean at 10...who do you want at 4?
WR/EDGE/OL?
Ideally an edge slides. If not I’d go WR if that Denver dream trade down offer doesn’t come through. We need a star on the offensive side of the ball. It’s possible Elijah Moore becomes that guy, but we need more than just him to make a difference.
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If we go Dean at 10...who do you want at 4?
WR/EDGE/OL?
After Jameson Williams' injury...trade back
If we're stuck at 4, best available EDGE (Travon Walker/George Karlaftis) or OL (Ikem Ekwonu)
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seeing as we have no chance at the top 2 EDGE players....i want WR then OL.
Karlaftis or WR is a good debate
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After Jameson Williams' injury...trade back
If we're stuck at 4, best available EDGE (Travon Walker/George Karlaftis) or OL (Ikem Ekwonu)
Has that been confirmed as an ACL yet? Assuming it is, and he still declares, where does he end up getting drafted? In the 50s?
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Has that been confirmed as an ACL yet? Assuming it is, and he still declares, where does he end up getting drafted? In the 50s?
first round
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first round
Would a playoff team this year take a guy who might not play?
I wouldn’t hesitate on him at 35 for the record, but I’m curious is all
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Karlaftis or WR is a good debate
Zach needs a WR1 that can get open, run solid routes and catch the ball. For now, i'm on the (WR1 > Karlaftis) train. This could change depending on what JD does in FA or via trade.
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Boring answer but I need to see FA happen before I really start zeroing in on draft preferences. Right now I'm wide open to possibilities.
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Would a playoff team this year take a guy who might not play?
I wouldn’t hesitate on him at 35 for the record, but I’m curious is all
Why wouldn't he play? It's January. ACL recovery for athletes is usually 6-8 months. He'll be back for preseason at the latest.
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I can't express how much I hate the idea of drafting a will linebacker with the 10th overall pick.
I love his attitude and speed, but bringing in a jamal adams size lb is not going to transform this defense we need pass rushers. And please miss me with his pff pass rushing stats.
You want to trade down and take him at 20, go for your life.
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After Jameson Williams' injury...trade back
If we're stuck at 4, best available EDGE (Travon Walker/George Karlaftis) or OL (Ikem Ekwonu)
If you love Dean so much, why not take him at 4? Elite linebackers who can get to the QB and play in coverage are gamechangers, and it's possibly our single biggest position of need. Taking a BPA you don't really love at 4 because they have a higher notional value and then missing the guy you really want at 10 seems like a mistake.
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I love his attitude and speed, but bringing in a jamal adams size lb is not going to transform this defense we need pass rushers.
1. Jamal Adams is a linebacker.
2. The defense needs everything. We are awful against the run because we're slow sideline-to-sideline and our linebackers outside of Mosley are horrible. Dean would immediately improve our all around defense.
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If you love Dean so much, why not take him at 4? Elite linebackers who can get to the QB and play in coverage are gamechangers, and it's possibly our single biggest position of need. Taking a BPA you don't really love at 4 because they have a higher notional value and then missing the guy you really want at 10 seems like a mistake.
I'm okay with taking him at 4 now that Williams is hurt
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I'd sign today if this was how our first 5 picks shook out
Karlaftis
N. Dean
Drake London
Zion Johnson
Trey McBride
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1. Jamal Adams is a linebacker.
2. The defense needs everything. We are awful against the run because we're slow sideline-to-sideline and our linebackers outside of Mosley are horrible. Dean would immediately improve our all around defense.
Let me know how taking an off ball linebacker top 10 has contributed to a team's success over the past 10 years. And dont even start with devin white, the bucs would be nowhere without tom.
We need players in the top 10 that can create and prevent explosive plays.
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Let me know how taking an off ball linebacker top 10 has contributed to a team's success over the past 10 years. And dont even start with devin white, the bucs would be nowhere without tom.
We need players in the top 10 that can create and prevent explosive plays.
Dude did you watch the national title game? That dude was everywhere making plays
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This is the most hyped I’ve been for an LB pre-draft since Vilma.
A couple days ago I asked my most reliable source (Soxxx) who’s the most comparable LB to Vilma in this draft and he said Dean
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Karla fits at 4 hurts my organs
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Let me know how taking an off ball linebacker top 10 has contributed to a team's success over the past 10 years. And dont even start with devin white, the bucs would be nowhere without tom.
We need players in the top 10 that can create and prevent explosive plays.
You can't really say Devin White doesn't count because the success is down to other players and then say that Roquan Smith doesn't count because the Bears are crap.
Defense is a team game.
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Let me know how taking an off ball linebacker top 10 has contributed to a team's success over the past 10 years. And dont even start with devin white, the bucs would be nowhere without tom.
We need players in the top 10 that can create and prevent explosive plays.
I’ll settle for 2 guys that don’t suck
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Let me know how taking an off ball linebacker top 10 has contributed to a team's success over the past 10 years. And dont even start with devin white, the bucs would be nowhere without tom.
We need players in the top 10 that can create and prevent explosive plays.
Off the top of my head, Luke Kuechly and Isaiah Simmons
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Dude did you watch the national title game? That dude was everywhere making plays
I'm not arguing he's a good player.
I'm arguing the top 2 things this team needs to do is help zach and improve our pass defense through coverage or sacks.
The players that do thay are CBs, o lineman, and pass rushers.
The positions that are hardest to draft elite prospects are CBs, o linemans, and pass rushers.
I dont want to waste a top 10 pick on a position that is not essential and is the most likely to be injured in the nfl, and on a player who is undersized for covering tight ends.
Upgrading quincy Williams to Dean gets us what, maybe a 1 game improvement in or record?
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Off the top of my head, Luke Kuechly and Isaiah Simmons
You're telling me isiah Simmons and nakobe Dean are comparable players? I'd love to hear this.
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I'm not arguing he's a good player.
I'm arguing the top 2 things this team needs to do is help zach and improve our pass defense through coverage or sacks.
The players that do thay are CBs, o lineman, and pass rushers.
The positions that are hardest to draft elite prospects are CBs, o linemans, and pass rushers.
I dont want to waste a top 10 pick on a position that is not essential and is the most likely to be injured in the nfl, and on a player who is undersized for covering tight ends.
Upgrading quincy Williams to Dean gets us what, maybe a 1 game improvement in or record?
LBs aren't essential...did you watch our run D this year?
David Harris should kick you in the dink
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TIL that linebackers can't make plays and they don't stop them from happening either
interesting
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You're telling me isiah Simmons and nakobe Dean are comparable players? I'd love to hear this.
Nakobe Dean is better
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You can't really say Devin White doesn't count because the success is down to other players and then say that Roquan Smith doesn't count because the Bears are crap.
Defense is a team game.
That's my point. An off ball linebacker does not have enough of an impact on a team's success to draft top 10
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That's my point. An off ball linebacker does not have enough of an impact on a team's success to draft top 10
A 4-3 linebacker, Mike, Will, or Sam can make an impact on every single play.
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That's my point. An off ball linebacker does not have enough of an impact on a team's success to draft top 10
If you're looking at splash plays, maybe. If you're looking at their ability to influence a defensive scheme and performance, I disagree. A middle linebacker plays a role in every single snap.
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I'm starting to think insanity drove Demario Davis to the airport when he decided to sign with the Saints.
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If you're looking at splash plays, maybe.
I am. Players that are game changers
A middle linebacker plays a role in every single snap.
Once more and then I'm done with this.
- I'm not saying a good linebacker isn't important I'm saying you don't need a 1st round Will let alone a top 5 WILL to be successful in this league.
- off ball linebackers are easier to find in the later rounds
- Saleh has proven to be able to develop linebackers
- top pass rushers, cb, and olineman are the most important positions in the league, are in the shortest supply, and the top ones are usually high draft picks
- we've had good linebackers on this team and our success doesn't rely on them being healthy it relies on being able to rush the passer something we haven't been able to do since Jon Abraham left
- finally, if you told me Nakobe Dean was a lock down coverage linebacker who can stop tightends from running roughshod on us I would be all in for Dean top 10. But he's not going to be able to do that because he's 6 flat and Mike gesicki, Mark Andrew's, tj hock, and all the other tightends we face next year are 6'5+
If I'm joe Douglas I'm planning to never pick in the top 10 again. I'm trading up to get a blue chip pass rusher or I'm giving zach all the help he needs to be successful by surrounding him with probowl lineman and weapons because that is the key to our success.
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https://twitter.com/jammer2233/status/1480968568699342850?s=21
Just not an impact player
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https://twitter.com/jammer2233/status/1480968568699342850?s=21
Just not an impact player
Top 5 pick hand clapping right there
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Top 5 pick hand clapping right there
I saw some leadership...and some accountability being doled out there.
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I saw some leadership...and some accountability being doled out there.
2nd round player couldn't clap like that
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An All-American, national champion linebacker...let's just pass on him because you don't understand how run fits work
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You can't really say Devin White doesn't count because the success is down to other players and then say that Roquan Smith doesn't count because the Bears are crap.
Defense is a team game.
Since you bring up Devin White and Roquan Smith
Say you're playing in the superbowl and you're told you are required to sit a probowl player
If you're the bucs are you sitting Shaq Barrett or Devin White?
If you're the bears are you sitting Khalil Mack or Roquan Smith?
The answer is clear and it proves the value of the position.
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If you're the bucs are you sitting Shaq Barrett or Devin White?
Shaq Barrett wasn't drafted.
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Since you bring up Devin White and Roquan Smith
Say you're playing in the superbowl and you're told you are required to sit a probowl player
If you're the bucs are you sitting Shaq Barrett or Devin White?
If you're the bears are you sitting Khalil Mack or Roquan Smith?
The answer is clear and it proves the value of the position.
what the freak is this?
Roquan is most likely relaying the playcalls as the quarterback of the Bears D.
I guarantee you Khalil Mack will voluntarily sit in favor of letting Roquan play.
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There were several plays against Clemson and Michigan where Dean knew the play before the snap and got his guys lined up to make an impact play (or he ended up making the play himself).
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An All-American, national champion linebacker...let's just pass on him because you don't understand how run fits work
Reuben Foster - All American, National Champion linebacker
Should have drafted him top 5
"Alex, I'll take I don't give a excrement he's a linebacker for $500"
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Reuben Foster - All American, National Champion linebacker
Should have drafted him top 5
"Alex, I'll take I don't give a excrement he's a linebacker for $500"
Foster is also a felon. Twice over.
Maybe you should stop?
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Reuben Foster - All American, National Champion linebacker
Should have drafted him top 5
"Alex, I'll take I don't give a excrement he's a linebacker for $500"
What an argument you're making here.
Foster was a 3-4 inside backer at Alabama. He did not have Mike responsibilities and he got into serious legal trouble that derailed his career before it could take off.
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Foster is also a felon. Twice over.
He also didn't play in a 4-3 or make defensive calls, but hey...all linebackers are the same.
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What an argument you're making here.
Foster was a 3-4 inside backer at Alabama. He did not have Mike responsibilities and he got into serious legal trouble that derailed his career before it could take off.
What does that matter?
He was an all american, national champion linebacker.
who cares?
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This has become a waste of time. If you want to talk actual football and linebacker play, I'm happy to.
But if you're just going to continue to spew "off ball linebacker" while comparing weakside 3-4 to hybrid 4-3, I just don't think you'll get it.
I don't care about PFF either. Dean is ALWAYS in the right spot. We don't have that on our defense. If you have a Mike that can get your back seven lined up, your pass rush improves because the coverage is there.
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I am. Players that are game changers
Once more and then I'm done with this.
- I'm not saying a good linebacker isn't important I'm saying you don't need a 1st round Will let alone a top 5 WILL to be successful in this league.
- off ball linebackers are easier to find in the later rounds
- Saleh has proven to be able to develop linebackers
- top pass rushers, cb, and olineman are the most important positions in the league, are in the shortest supply, and the top ones are usually high draft picks
- we've had good linebackers on this team and our success doesn't rely on them being healthy it relies on being able to rush the passer something we haven't been able to do since Jon Abraham left
- finally, if you told me Nakobe Dean was a lock down coverage linebacker who can stop tightends from running roughshod on us I would be all in for Dean top 10. But he's not going to be able to do that because he's 6 flat and Mike gesicki, Mark Andrew's, tj hock, and all the other tightends we face next year are 6'5+
If I'm joe Douglas I'm planning to never pick in the top 10 again. I'm trading up to get a blue chip pass rusher or I'm giving zach all the help he needs to be successful by surrounding him with probowl lineman and weapons because that is the key to our success.
2 things, sometimes and elite player is an elite player (regardless of position) and we need to find elite players. Positional value absolutely matters. But a B+ talent at a “premium” position does not trump an A+ talent at a less valuable position. Annoyingly enough this draft seems to be “loaded” with the very best players playing less important positions outside of KT and AH. It’s a problem of this year, and in general I agree with your sentiment about positional value, but if there aren’t quality players there, don’t just take a suboptimal player because he’s at a more important position than a clearly more talented player.
I just want elite players, I want transcend any offensive playmakers, but with Williams getting hurt I’m not sure I see one right now.
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I'm not arguing he's a good player.
I'm arguing the top 2 things this team needs to do is help zach and improve our pass defense through coverage or sacks.
The players that do thay are CBs, o lineman, and pass rushers.
The positions that are hardest to draft elite prospects are CBs, o linemans, and pass rushers.
I dont want to waste a top 10 pick on a position that is not essential and is the most likely to be injured in the nfl, and on a player who is undersized for covering tight ends.
Upgrading quincy Williams to Dean gets us what, maybe a 1 game improvement in or record?
Just because you draft a CB or EDGE in the top 10 doesn't automatically mean it pans out. See Dee Milliner, Vernon Gholston, the list goes on and on...
We need a sure thing with our first two picks, and it appears that the consensus is Dean fits that bill.
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2 things, sometimes and elite player is an elite player (regardless of position) and we need to find elite players. Positional value absolutely matters. But a B+ talent at a “premium” position does not trump an A+ talent at a less valuable position. Annoyingly enough this draft seems to be “loaded” with the very best players playing less important positions outside of KT and AH. It’s a problem of this year, and in general I agree with your sentiment about positional value, but if there aren’t quality players there, don’t just take a suboptimal player because he’s at a more important position than a clearly more talented player.
I just want elite players, I want transcend any offensive playmakers, but with Williams getting hurt I’m not sure I see one right now.
Beat me by 30 seconds.
THIS. THIS. THIS.
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Here's a Jets example: Would you rather have Vernon Gholston or Jerod Mayo?
Take the elite player
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We need a sure thing with our first two picks, and it appears that the consensus is Dean fits that bill.
I know Dean isn't at the Senior Bowl, but the best thing about our coaching staff running one team down there is that we can see who "fits the bill" -- you can tell who the best prospects are in padded drills and then later in the film room.
It's a fantastic opportunity for our franchise.
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Since you bring up Devin White and Roquan Smith
Say you're playing in the superbowl and you're told you are required to sit a probowl player
If you're the bucs are you sitting Shaq Barrett or Devin White?
If you're the bears are you sitting Khalil Mack or Roquan Smith?
The answer is clear and it proves the value of the position.
I don't know that anyone here would pass on drafting the next Khalil Mack over the next Luke Kuechly. If Mack is there at 4 or 10, you take him. But it would be substantially more foolish to take, for instance, a Marcus Davenport type over next-Kuechly because of positional value.
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This draft is loaded, just not at QB.
Is Stingley a better overall prospect than Dean? On paper, yes because cornerback is a premium position.
But what player is more impactful on the football field? I'm taking Nakobe Dean.
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2 things, sometimes and elite player is an elite player (regardless of position) and we need to find elite players. Positional value absolutely matters. But a B+ talent at a “premium” position does not trump an A+ talent at a less valuable position. Annoyingly enough this draft seems to be “loaded” with the very best players playing less important positions outside of KT and AH. It’s a problem of this year, and in general I agree with your sentiment about positional value, but if there aren’t quality players there, don’t just take a suboptimal player because he’s at a more important position than a clearly more talented player.
I just want elite players, I want transcend any offensive playmakers, but with Williams getting hurt I’m not sure I see one right now.
100% agree.
Which is why I said we should use our capital to trade up 2 spots and get the guy we want or if no other player has the same draft grade trade down to acquire more capital and take dean if he is still there.
I have no problem with Dean. He's a talented player, but will lbs have never been a make or break position on a team.
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“If he’s still there…”
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TIL that linebackers can't make plays and they don't stop them from happening either
interesting
https://youtu.be/m4OvQIGDg4I
I tackle the running backs so the defensive backs don't have to... I'M A PEOPLE PERSON GOD DAMNIT
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User name checks out.
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Thread title looks like Dean Cain appreciation thread.
(https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/3/2020/07/dean-cain-f72b6be.jpg?quality=90&resize=768,574)
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100% agree.
Which is why I said we should use our capital to trade up 2 spots and get the guy we want or if no other player has the same draft grade trade down to acquire more capital and take dean if he is still there.
I have no problem with Dean. He's a talented player, but will lbs have never been a make or break position on a team.
Give me a blue chip LB that I know will start day 1 versus Dee Milliner
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Give me a blue chip LB that I know will start day 1 versus Dee Milliner
True.. tyler linderbaum definitely won't start day 1
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True.. tyler linderbaum definitely won't start day 1
A center cannot sack the QB, intercept a pass, tackle a ball carrier for a loss, or force a fumble.
It's also the least valuable position on the offensive line. Johnny English will not be happy if/when he sees this.
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A center cannot sack the QB, intercept a pass, tackle a ball carrier for a loss, or force a fumble.
It's also the least valuable position on the offensive line. Johnny English will not be happy if/when he sees this.
It will improve zach's maturation process which is priority number 1
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It will improve zach's maturation process which is priority number 1
Why will Linderbaum help Wilson more than McGovern?
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If my team has a young quarterback, I want experience and consistency on my OL. McGovern provides that. He isn't great, but he was playing well before the injury.
Fant - AVT - McGovern - ?? - Becton
This is a good enough offensive line if the right guard is a capable veteran like LDT was for us
People don't want to hear it but Becton is the mystery right now on that offensive line. The other players can be counted on to play at a good enough level.
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If my team has a young quarterback, I want experience and consistency on my OL. McGovern provides that. He isn't great, but he was playing well before the injury.
Fant - AVT - McGovern - ?? - Becton
This is a good enough offensive line if the right guard is a capable veteran like LDT was for us
People don't want to hear it but Becton is the mystery right now on that offensive line. The other players can be counted on to play at a good enough level.
Vote McGovern/Feeney for center in 2022.
*Paid for by Sweetmullets for Change
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People don't want to hear it but Becton is the mystery right now on that offensive line.
I agree. He instagram too much
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Why does Linderbaum help Wilson "mature" faster than McGovern?
Is he going to share some roids with him?
I don't understand
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Why does Linderbaum help Wilson "mature" faster than McGovern?
Is he going to share some roids with him?
I don't understand
Mature bear helps young twunk snap his balls
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Why does Linderbaum help Wilson "mature" faster than McGovern?
Is he going to share some roids with him?
I don't understand
He's a far superior clapper than mcgovern
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Mature bear helps young twunk snap his balls
Zach Wilson goes from twink to twunk this offseason
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A center cannot sack the QB, intercept a pass, tackle a ball carrier for a loss, or force a fumble.
It's also the least valuable position on the offensive line. Johnny English will not be happy if/when he sees this.
Hey, don't drag me into your fights.
I think that a good center is vital for the progress of a young quarterback because he helps him understand what he's seeing from the defense. As the QB matures and gets a better handle on things then that might become less essential, but don't tell Peyton Manning that Jeff Saturday wasn't important.
I can see a decent argument that a sophomore QB isn't going to be especially helped by a rookie center who's still figuring things out himself; I'm sure some come out of school ready made (Creed Humphrey anyone?) but I don't know where Linderbaum ranks. I mostly want us to draft him just to watch you have a meltdown.
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Jeff Saturday, UDFA Center
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I don't know who is being more tedious here, insanity or Heiss.
If Linderbaum is the best player available with one of our first round picks, then take him.
If Linderbaum is the best player available in the top 10, a bunch of dudes probably had career-threating injuries in the offseason.
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Draft Pelosi, all American clapper & funbags
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/7A4iGSv5ncnLxUfGjZ/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952ea5a5e637f2c5734cca76ceb4acb5f266c7a6020&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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Nakobe Dean wearing wrong championship hat. No awareness. Do not draft
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIzAy7EVgAENzzv?format=jpg&name=small)
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I'd love to show up to Alabama parties in that hat. The derriere kicking would be worth it.
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This draft is loaded, just not at QB.
Is Stingley a better overall prospect than Dean? On paper, yes because cornerback is a premium position.
But what player is more impactful on the football field? I'm taking Nakobe Dean.
I would also add, what player better fits our needs and style of play? What about where Saleh chooses to emphasize in his defense? He prioritizes front seven over secondary play in how he invests in players. Given we have a decent CB room and nothing (currently) at LB, to me the direction there is clear…
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https://twitter.com/kevincolepff/status/1481278320641728514?s=21
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https://twitter.com/kevincolepff/status/1481278320641728514?s=21
Calling Micha Parsons an off ball linebacker is equivalent to calling LeBron James a power forward.
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Calling Micha Parsons an off ball linebacker is equivalent to calling LeBron James a power forward.
PFF stinks, but this is a fair comparison if they are only grading his snaps as a linebacker.
Van Noy plays all over the place too.
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Both declared.
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https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1484518643161395204?s=10
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Dean 6’0 225
Vilma 6’0 233
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https://twitter.com/pff_college/status/1484518643161395204?s=10
Didn't even clap. Character concern.