Jet Offensive
New York Jets Football => ...And The Home Of The Jets => Topic started by: Badger on April 11, 2018, 11:21:58 AM
-
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/jets-will-reportedly-pick-up-fifth-year-option-on-star-dl-leonard-williams/
Locks him down through 2019. For that year he will make the average salary of the top 10 players at his position.
We can still sign him to a long term extension before then.
-
No-brainer move. This guy has to be a cornerstone of this team for another 8-10 years.
-
No-brainer move. This guy has to be a cornerstone of this team for another 8-10 years.
Or, sign a massive long term deal and immediately become a lazy boozehound who can't be bothered putting in a shift.
-
Or, sign a massive long term deal and immediately become a lazy boozehound who can't be bothered putting in a shift.
Who would ever do something like that? He'd have to be a real poopchute.
-
Leo would never Haynesworth us
-
Leo would never Haynesworth us
We said the same thing about Mo two years ago.
-
We said the same thing about Mo two years ago.
I wasn't shocked at all about Mo.
-
https://nypost.com/2018/04/16/jets-d-line-leader-reveals-first-step-to-fixing-his-sack-issue/
-
#Blessed
-
Leonard Williams recorded 5.5 sacks in his first 17 NFL games. In the 34 games since then, he has 6.5 sacks, or one sack every five games.
-
Wtf is it with our first round DL falling off the face of the earth
-
Wtf is it with our first round DL falling off the face of the earth
At least he's showing up to meetings and driving safely.
-
That's troublesome, but sacks are a terrible way to judge a 3-4 ends sucxess
-
Williams is doing a lot for Darron Lee and Avery Williamson.
That will always go unnoticed by PFF.
It’d be nice to see him make more disruptive plays, but our ILBs are really benefiting from his double team anchor ability.
-
I'm hoping it's just because of the three games in 10 days, but he looked positively gassed in the 2nd half on Thursday. He was the last lineman out of his stance on more than a few plays.
We desperately need more talent around him on the front line. Henry Anderson is delivering, but Nathan Shepherd has been invisible.
-
5 tackles. 2.5 sacks. 3 QB hits. 2 TFL.
-
5 tackles. 2.5 sacks. 3 QB hits. 2 TFL.
0 interceptions
0 forced fumbles
0 fumble recoveries
Bum
-
I'm not smart enough to determine whether there were differences in how Bowles called the defensive plays versus Rodgers, but it seemed like Leo was getting a lot more single matchups than his usual double teams and he took advantage of it. The right guard in particular got taken to school.
-
I'm not smart enough to determine whether there were differences in how Bowles called the defensive plays versus Rodgers, but it seemed like Leo was getting a lot more single matchups than his usual double teams and he took advantage of it. The right guard in particular got taken to school.
Thank Henry Anderson.
Seriously, Anderson did some real dirty work for Leo this week. There was one play where Anderson came across to Williams' right and blew up the blocker. Leo went straight through a gaping hole untouched and destroyed Keenum.
-
I'm not smart
We know
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Thank Henry Anderson.
Seriously, Anderson did some real dirty work for Leo this week. There was one play where Anderson came across to Williams' right and blew up the blocker. Leo went straight through a gaping hole untouched and destroyed Keenum.
they've been good for each other
it's almost role reversal
i think of williams a little bit like snacks. sometimes i imagine the bums on either side of him were only so good because of him
anderson has been a menace in a few games this year. when there's someone else getting in their and causing mischief, leo is gonna catch a stat now and then
will be cool to see how he does if the jets ever get an edge rush during his career
-
Some interesting numbers regarding Leo's rate of double-teaming:
https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1058743672399937536?s=21 (https://twitter.com/michael_nania/status/1058743672399937536?s=21)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrFpsWTU8AAa1Om.jpg:large)
Compared to the league leaders:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq3Rc_9UcAASdhF.jpg)
My biggest problem with this data is that it doesn't take into account how often Williams is being double-teamed on rushing plays, which seems to me to be significantly more often than 15%-20%.
-
All of those guys have help to take pressure off of them.
-
All of those guys have help to take pressure off of them.
Leo's got help from Brandon Copeland and Frankie Luvu and he can't even get sacks what a scrub
-
Leo's got help from Brandon Copeland and Frankie Luvu and he can't even get sacks what a scrub
\
Thats the part that surprises me. I'm surprised given the lack of "other people" that need to be blocked on our line, he isn't getting doubled every time purely because who else are you bothering to block? On a line with Aaron Donald, Suh, and now Fowler, you are still doubling Donald 70% of the time? Thats a wrecker right there.
All this does is confirm that Leo is a top 10-15 player on the line, and not a top 5 monster we all hoped he would be when we drafted him.
-
\
Thats the part that surprises me. I'm surprised given the lack of "other people" that need to be blocked on our line, he isn't getting doubled every time purely because who else are you bothering to block? On a line with Aaron Donald, Suh, and now Fowler, you are still doubling Donald 70% of the time? Thats a wrecker right there.
All this does is confirm that Leo is a top 10-15 player on the line, and not a top 5 monster we all hoped he would be when we drafted him.
Wait, what confirms that Leo is a top 10-15 line player?
-
Wait, what confirms that Leo is a top 10-15 line player?
His girth.
-
Wait, what confirms that Leo is a top 10-15 line player?
Only astronaut in the league, bruh
-
I really love this kid, but he is getting his derriere kicked this season. His ability to anchor against the run is borderline elite and it's done wonders for Darron Lee, but he is not a nose tackle.
We absolutely need more disruption and production from him.
-
I really love this kid, but he is getting his derriere kicked this season. His ability to anchor against the run is borderline elite and it's done wonders for Darron Lee, but he is not a nose tackle.
We absolutely need more disruption and production from him.
I'm hoping his decreased production is an effect of misuse in the scheme.
-
I really love this kid, but he is getting his derriere kicked this season. His ability to anchor against the run is borderline elite and it's done wonders for Darron Lee, but he is not a nose tackle.
We absolutely need more disruption and production from him.
Side positive, his renewed deal should be much cheaper without the massive production we need from him
-
I'm hoping his decreased production is an effect of misuse in the scheme.
This is something that only Bowles will get blamed for despite Macc not picking the right players for the sheme
-
I really love this kid, but he is getting his derriere kicked this season. His ability to anchor against the run is borderline elite and it's done wonders for Darron Lee, but he is not a nose tackle.
We absolutely need more disruption and production from him.
He's getting tough double-teams on passing plays. I think he and Anderson can be successful, but they really need someone better than McClendon or Pennel in between them.
-
This is something that only Bowles will get blamed for despite Macc not picking the right players for the sheme
#KeepWilk
#DontOverpaySnacks
-
#KeepWilk
#DontOverpaySnacks
Snacks was so valuable the giants traded him for a 5th round pick.
In sorry but if you eliminate hindsight bias the Jets made the right choice.
-
Snacks was so valuable the giants traded him for a 5th round pick
It was a salary dump.
-
Snacks was so valuable the giants traded him for a 5th round pick.
In sorry but if you eliminate hindsight bias the Jets made the right choice.
As MB said, Snacks was a salary dump by the Giants.
You have to use hindsight to judge this now. We know--in hindsight--that the Jets knew Wilkerson was an attitude problem child with a penchant for blowing off meetings. They chose to keep Wilkerson over Harrison--even privately knowing what they did. They gambled and lost. They deserve hindsight criticism.
-
freaking EMBARRASSING
https://mobile.twitter.com/jcaporoso/status/1072478280131981313
-
freaking EMBARRASSING
https://mobile.twitter.com/jcaporoso/status/1072478280131981313
Holy excrement! That was awful. He literally could have stopped that TD. Anderson made a diving attempt but he definitely could've hit Allen and stopped him from scoring. Unbelievable.
It looked like Williamson was playing half-speed there too.
-
You guys are ridiculous
-
I can understand blaming Williamson but in what world is Leo going to get to Allen in time there if he's running full-speed?
-
I can understand blaming Williamson but in what world is Leo going to get to Allen in time there if he's running full-speed?
Williams is crossing the LOS marker (at the 6 yard line) as Allen is crossing the 15. That's the point where Williams turns off his motor. There was so much room for Williams to make a play on that. If you stop it as Allen was passing by Williams, you can see how close Leo was to him (arm's length). And that was not running. If he puts in effort on that, maybe he doesn't make a tackle, but he certainly gets his hands on Allen.
-
Williams is crossing the LOS marker (at the 6 yard line) as Allen is crossing the 15. That's the point where Williams turns off his motor. There was so much room for Williams to make a play on that. If you stop it as Allen was passing by Williams, you can see how close Leo was to him (arm's length). And that was not running. If he puts in effort on that, maybe he doesn't make a tackle, but he certainly gets his hands on Allen.
I promise I'm not picking to argue with every point you make.
With that said, how can you or anyone decide whether Williams could or could't make a play on the runner from this video angle?
C'mon man
-
I can understand blaming Williamson but in what world is Leo going to get to Allen in time there if he's running full-speed?
How does Henry Anderson manage to get there? Williams and Anderson start from the same exact point in the clip. One gives a excrement and has a motor, the other doesn’t.
-
I promise I'm not picking to argue with every point you make.
With that said, how can you or anyone decide whether Williams could or could't make a play on the runner from this video angle?
C'mon man
I hear you. But if you pause the clip as Allen is passing by Williams, you can see how close he is. And you see clearly on full-speed play how he's not even making an effort to run.
Maybe he couldn't make that play. I won't argue that point. But what is the excuse for not even making an effort? Did you watch that clip and think he put in enough effort? I'm asking honestly.
-
The video last week didn't bother me that much. This one is worse. If Jenkins or Anderson is able to slow him down, Leo would have had a chance to make the stop. He probably isn't going to catch Allen without help, but it's still pathetic effort.
-
Again, haven't watched much of this season, but are we at the point where we think Williams is at the Wilkerson level of effort?
-
Again, haven't watched much of this season, but are we at the point where we think Williams is at the Wilkerson level of effort?
No. I select few are trying to get there though based on watching select clips
-
There's something called camera angles, and they can deceive you. Williams is nowhere as near Allen as it looks in that video. He's probably 5 or 6 yards away and Allen is way faster.
-
Again, haven't watched much of this season, but are we at the point where we think Williams is at the Wilkerson level of effort?
I’ve seen Wilkerson flop into an Offensive Lineman and fall down with more effort than that play
-
Even if you forgive the distance thanks to camera angles, I don't see how anyone can support Williams on that one in terms of effort. He clearly gave zero effort and I can't believe we can't all find common ground on at least that.
Watch Henry Anderson on that play. That's effort.
-
Even if you forgive the distance thanks to camera angles, I don't see how anyone can support Williams on that one in terms of effort. He clearly gave zero effort and I can't believe we can't all find common ground on at least that.
Watch Henry Anderson on that play. That's effort.
He's too far, there was no way he could reach Allen. Imagine he was on the other side of the field. Well, it's the same. It's not about running just for the sake of running.
-
He's too far, there was no way he could reach Allen. Imagine he was on the other side of the field. Well, it's the same. It's not about running just for the sake of running.
He was next to Anderson. Anderson shed blocks and got to Allen's feet. I don't care if Williams doesn't make the play. I care that there are 9.5* other guys running around the field in green jerseys on that play and one making a business decision.
*Williamson gave up on that play too, but not as early as Leo did.
-
He was next to Anderson. Anderson shed blocks and got to Allen's feet. I don't care if Williams doesn't make the play. I care that there are 9.5* other guys running around the field in green jerseys on that play and one making a business decision.
*Williamson gave up on that play too, but not as early as Leo did.
And what good it is to run and get to someone's feet? Is there a stat for that?
-
And what good it is to run and get to someone's feet? Is there a stat for that?
Why would there need to be a stat for that?
Henry Anderson put in an effort and at least made contact with Allen. Leonard Williams took the play off because who cares if Allen scores there, right?
I wonder if Jamal Adams has no problem with what happened on that play.
-
Sports is not about running just for the sake of it. I know it looks better if you do, but if it's pointless, why tire yourself out? Williams looked like a bum for not running, would it have made a difference? No. Was actually better in the long run that he didn't run? Quite likely.
-
After rewatching this clip, it looks like Williams was going the other way at the snap and had to fight through to get back to that point. I think I'll let him judge how much the dive would have been worth at that point.
-
One play sample size... where we don’t even get the whole play. Hell for all we know he just got gut punched by the OL and the wind knocked out of him and couldn’t breathe well enough to move.
But of course carry on assuming he’s a piece of white hot lazy trash. I’ll believe it when Adams starts calling him out.
-
I suppose it could've been worse. We could've passed on Leo for Kevin White.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/mattwaldman/status/1072165276505001991
Is this your king??
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/mattwaldman/status/1072165276505001991
Is this your king??
ha...I commented on that play in the game thread. Nobody said anything.
I guess it was a bad camera angle too ::)
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/mattwaldman/status/1072165276505001991
Is this your king??
LOL, one play sample size dude!
BTW: Buster freaking Skrine made the tackle on that play.
-
https://mobile.twitter.com/mattwaldman/status/1072165276505001991
Is this your king??
And the week before Allen ran over Myles Jack to score a TD. It's almost like he's quite good at this excrement.
-
It's like you guys want to be miserable...
There is another angle of this play where you can see Leonard is still fighting off the blocker when Allen runs through.
There's a difference between laziness and not making a difficult play.
Allen is the same size Cam Newton and you're questioning Leonard's effort because he didnt tackle him with 1 arm while Allen was running at him
-
Leonard “Big Kat” Williams didn’t want any part of big bad Josh Allen on that TD scramble after being on the receiving end of that vicious stiff arm earlier in the game
-
Joke of a stiff arm
https://www.buffalobills.com/video/allen-stiff-arms-williams-breaking-through-the-gap-for-a-31-yard-rush
-
All jokes aside, this article got me thinking last night. I’ve been thinking for a while now that one of the best uses of our cap space this offseason would be to sign Leo to an extension. If the FA market doesn’t produce the players we need, it would be a wise use of the extra cap. The question is how much will he get.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/12/jets-dont-know-which-direction-to-take-with-leonard-williams/
-
All jokes aside, this article got me thinking last night. I’ve been thinking for a while now that one of the best uses of our cap space this offseason would be to sign Leo to an extension. If the FA market doesn’t produce the players we need, it would be a wise use of the extra cap. The question is how much will he get.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/12/jets-dont-know-which-direction-to-take-with-leonard-williams/
Leo can ask for 17 million a year like Wilk got, but his production simply isn’t there to warrant that kind of pay. I’d bet he’s more in the $12-13 range now
-
Say some team offers you a 2nd rounder for Leonard Williams. Do you just take the offer, assuming that he's reached his ceiling here and will never live up to his draft status, or do you take a chance that a different defensive scheme can turn him into what he was supposed to be?
I know the Jets have more than enough cash to keep him. That's not the issue. If this production can be replaced by a mid round draft pick or a cheaper veteran like Henry Anderson, why pay him over $10 million per year? If they believe that he's been mediocre statistically because he's been miscast in the defense then that's a different story. I just hope the new regime doesn't keep him around just because he was the 6th overall pick.
-
Say some team offers you a 2nd rounder for Leonard Williams. Do you just take the offer, assuming that he's reached his ceiling here and will never live up to his draft status, or do you take a chance that a different defensive scheme can turn him into what he was supposed to be?
I know the Jets have more than enough cash to keep him. That's not the issue. If this production can be replaced by a mid round draft pick or a cheaper veteran like Henry Anderson, why pay him over $10 million per year? If they believe that he's been mediocre statistically because he's been miscast in the defense then that's a different story. I just hope the new regime doesn't keep him around just because he was the 6th overall pick.
I would take a 2nd-round pick for Leonard Williams rather than pay him market value. I would rather have the extra draft asset. They could find a replacement to do 80% of what Williams does for cheaper, and then they could reinvest the 2nd-round pick to help build the roster.
Williams will be 25 years old next year, so he's still young enough where he can improve, but he seems light he might be plateauing as a Shaun Ellis-caliber player. Ellis was a great Jet and a very good starter for a while, but we were hoping for more from the new Big Cat when we drafted him.
We do have to start spending money somewhere, and as long as Williams doesn't need a boatload of money, he's certainly a fine player to keep, but I'd rather take my chances in a trade and free agency.
-
This thread is derriere.
-
Say some team offers you a 2nd rounder for Leonard Williams. Do you just take the offer, assuming that he's reached his ceiling here and will never live up to his draft status, or do you take a chance that a different defensive scheme can turn him into what he was supposed to be?
I know the Jets have more than enough cash to keep him. That's not the issue. If this production can be replaced by a mid round draft pick or a cheaper veteran like Henry Anderson, why pay him over $10 million per year? If they believe that he's been mediocre statistically because he's been miscast in the defense then that's a different story. I just hope the new regime doesn't keep him around just because he was the 6th overall pick.
No. Why would you trade a good established player? We're supposed to be getting help for players like Leo, not trading him because the lack of help is making him look worse than he is.
-
Say some team offers you a 2nd rounder for Leonard Williams. Do you just take the offer, assuming that he's reached his ceiling here and will never live up to his draft status, or do you take a chance that a different defensive scheme can turn him into what he was supposed to be?
I know the Jets have more than enough cash to keep him. That's not the issue. If this production can be replaced by a mid round draft pick or a cheaper veteran like Henry Anderson, why pay him over $10 million per year? If they believe that he's been mediocre statistically because he's been miscast in the defense then that's a different story. I just hope the new regime doesn't keep him around just because he was the 6th overall pick.
It depends entirely on what the new regime thinks of him. If they want him you keep him and pay him. If the new group thinks he is overvalued and we can get similar production from a cheaper player, take the asset and try and build the offense.
-
No. Why would you trade a good established player? We're supposed to be getting help for players like Leo, not trading him because the lack of help is making him look worse than he is.
It’s not in a vacuum. He’s due a big contract. The question here is he worth the contract he will command for his production on the field.
I think we should extend him, as long as he’s paid fairly- market value. Mega deal would scare me off. We shouldn’t be in the business of getting rid of our good players, we only have a few right now.
-
PFF NY Jets
#Jets Leonard Williams currently has 44 QB pressures which is the 8th most among DI’s through Week 14! #JetUp
-
Which is why I’d like to pay him. As those numbers mean sacks are coming eventually. Because his actual production is low, he won’t get paid as much as if say he had 11 sacks on his 44 pressures instead of 4. Of which I’m sure there are a couple guys who do. I think with any semblance of help, we will see Leo’s production take a jump, and I love to be paying an 8-12 sack a year guy $10 million per.
But it’s all up to the new staff to decide if he’s an irreplaceable piece or not.
-
Which is why I’d like to pay him. As those numbers mean sacks are coming eventually. Because his actual production is low, he won’t get paid as much as if say he had 11 sacks on his 44 pressures instead of 4. Of which I’m sure there are a couple guys who do. I think with any semblance of help, we will see Leo’s production take a jump, and I love to be paying an 8-12 sack a year guy $10 million per.
But it’s all up to the new staff to decide if he’s an irreplaceable piece or not.
Or he could just keep getting "almost sacks" for $13-$15 million a year. He had similar pressure numbers last year and the sacks didn't come this year. It may be surrounding talent or scheme, but it is what it is. This is his 4th season, we're running out of time for "potential".
I'm not against re-signing the guy for the right price. He isn't Mo Wilkerson in the sense of being a turd collecting a paycheck. However, even Mo put up sacks before his contract. But I wouldn't want another Mo Wilkerson situation where he's getting paid a lot and not putting up numbers. You get drafted at #6 overall, you should be getting sacks. How many other defensive lineman in the league are getting paid top salaries without putting up good sack totals? If they are, I'm pretty sure the team isn't happy about it. If he is a guy eating up blocks to allow other guys to get pressure, that's fine. But he should be paid accordingly. He hasn't living up to his draft status. A #6 overall defensive lineman should be getting sacks regardless of scheme.
-
He's not hitting him on sacks but he's pressuring the QB which is what you want from a 3-4 DLineman. He'll probably command a sub market value due to his measurable stats. He's played well as an anchor which is out of position for him. I hope we're Able to lock him up after this season.
-
He's not hitting him on sacks but he's pressuring the QB which is what you want from a 3-4 DLineman. He'll probably command a sub market value due to his measurable stats. He's played well as an anchor which is out of position for him. I hope we're Able to lock him up after this season.
I think it would be fine to re-sign him as long as they aren't paying him top dollar for a d-lineman. Those guys are on a different level than he is right now. 2 years ago, we thought we'd be talking about a JJ Watt-type contract for him.
One thing I have noticed by looking at some contract numbers is that if you throw out Watt and Aaron Donald, 3-4 DEs aren't getting large amounts of sacks, but also aren't getting massive deals either (Jurell Casey is the only other one besides Watt and Donald getting more than $12 million per year). So maybe it would make sense for Williams to get $12-13 million per year as long as he's disruptive. Depends on your definition of disruptive.
-
Which is why I’d like to pay him. As those numbers mean sacks are coming eventually. Because his actual production is low, he won’t get paid as much as if say he had 11 sacks on his 44 pressures instead of 4. Of which I’m sure there are a couple guys who do. I think with any semblance of help, we will see Leo’s production take a jump, and I love to be paying an 8-12 sack a year guy $10 million per.
But it’s all up to the new staff to decide if he’s an irreplaceable piece or not.
10 million a year? You’re way off
-
I think it would be fine to re-sign him as long as they aren't paying him top dollar for a d-lineman. Those guys are on a different level than he is right now. 2 years ago, we thought we'd be talking about a JJ Watt-type contract for him.
One thing I have noticed by looking at some contract numbers is that if you throw out Watt and Aaron Donald, 3-4 DEs aren't getting large amounts of sacks, but also aren't getting massive deals either (Jurell Casey is the only other one besides Watt and Donald getting more than $12 million per year). So maybe it would make sense for Williams to get $12-13 million per year as long as he's disruptive. Depends on your definition of disruptive.
I looked at this the other day. I’ll post later.
-
I watched Leo every play this game, and I really hope he's injured because he doesn't look good.
Yes he's getting double teamed alot, but he's slow off the ball and not doing anything but bullrush
-
Really, it will come down to who is running the team next year. We have no idea if we will be running a 4-3, 3-4 or whatever else.
Defensive linemen are so scheme based. It is part of why we were able to get Henry Anderson.
I hope we stick with a 3-4, and considering we have both Avery and Darron, it makes little sense to switch to a 4-3. But maybe we hire someone who thinks Lee is better as a 4-3 OLB and Leonard is better as a 3tech in a 4-3.
-
When’s the last time we ran a 4-3 base? 2005?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
We’d have to hire someone like Kris Richard or Dan Quinn to go back to a 4-3
-
We’d have to hire someone like Kris Richard or Dan Quinn to go back to a 4-3
Yeah but doesn't Sam Quinn run an atypical 4-3? I don't think we have the personnel for his type of defense. Who would play the Leo?
-
Who would play the Leo?
Leonard Williams
-
I've been knocking Williams the past couple of weeks as hard as anyone. I'd hold off on giving him an extension this offseason, but I want to see what he does with a new regime before I write him off completely.
He's under contract for next season. If by the end of September the new staff doesn't believe he fits, trade him. But this team can't just give up on a first-round pick just because he hasn't been successful with a staff we all think sucks.
-
Yeah but doesn't Sam Quinn run an atypical 4-3? I don't think we have the personnel for his type of defense. Who would play the Leo?
Kentucky OLB Josh Allen
-
NFL Update
@MySportsUpdate
#Jets will consider the possibility of shopping DL Leonard Williams to see if he could bring a second-round pick or better, per @RichCimini. Williams will have a $14.2M salary in 2019 under the 5th year team option.
-
^ get it done, duff.
-
I don’t see any way someone would give up a 1st for him on a 1 year 14M deal. The Sheldon trade was an absolute fleecing. I doubt we get a 2nd either but I would take it if offered.
-
Wilkerson, Coples, Richardson and now Williams. Man that is depressing.
-
I'd rather see what he does with a new coach.
For a half minute early in the year when the Jets didn't seem to suck, he looked like he was exploding playing with Anderson.
-
If someone gave us a premium pick for him I’d take it but he’s young and has shown flashes. We’re a team devoid of talent. I think you keep him.
-
If someone gave us a premium pick for him I’d take it but he’s young and has shown flashes. We’re a team devoid of talent. I think you keep him.
Just about to post something similar.
If someone offers a top 10 pick? Sure, sign me up (not bloody likely). 2nd rounder? GTFO
Dude is still just 24 YEARS OLD. He's not Aaron Donald, but he's clearly well above average and his best years are ahead of him.
-
Just about to post something similar.
If someone offers a top 10 pick? Sure, sign me up (not bloody likely). 2nd rounder? GTFO
Dude is still just 24 YEARS OLD. He's not Aaron Donald, but he's clearly well above average and his best years are ahead of him.
I agree with this, I have a few guys I’d look to move before Leo. In my eyes he’s the 4th most protected player on the team, behind San, Adams and Q because of his new deal.
Players like Leo are availed for the right price but it’s a high price for us to move on.
FYI I’d put Maye, Robby, Leo and Lee all in the same tier of tradeable asset that would be moved for a good return 2 or better IMO)
-
We took him at #6, kind of quick to move on from him at this age. Game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage.
-
We took him at #6, kind of quick to move on from him at this age. Game is won and lost at the line of scrimmage.
Yep, way too quick.
Especially if it's for a 2nd round pick, aka (to Maccagnan) "toilet paper".
-
Feels like we just got done moving on from Wilkerson and Richardson.
Is Calvin Pryor even still in the NFL?
-
I've been as critical of Williams as anyone, but if they trade him for a second-round pick, Maccagnan can GTFO.
Can we improve NT and get someone who can actually rush the QB from OLB before giving up on him? Also, I want to see how some of these guys act when a new HC comes in and (hopefully) doesn't take any player bullshit slacking.
-
If they can get a 2nd rounder for Williams, i'm fine with it. I still see him getting stiff-armed by Josh Allen.
-
If they can get a 2nd rounder for Williams, i'm fine with it. I still see him getting stiff-armed by Josh Allen.
Josh Allen's a 6'5" 240lb physical specimen. Let's not go acting like he got trucked by Jojo Natson.
-
Josh Allen is going to kill Josh Allen when Josh Allen is playing behind Williams against Josh Allen
-
Josh Allen's a 6'5" 240lb physical specimen. Let's not go acting like he got trucked by Jojo Natson.
Allen is still a QB, he's not exactly Mike Alstott. Leo should win that battle every time.
-
A stiff arm is a legal facemask, the ball carrier can do it but the defender can't. Some more bullshit.
-
Allen is still a QB, he's not exactly Mike Alstott. Leo should win that battle every time.
you're joking right?
-
you're joking right?
Dude...i have bigger worries than your opinion right now...like the Jets are about to freak up their HC hire again.
-
Allen is still a QB, he's not exactly Mike Alstott. Leo should win that battle every time.
Handoffs and stiff arms are a matter of leverage, not a straight size fight. They're hard to do well but if you make the right contact a much smaller guy can comfortably deflect the tackle of a much larger man. Shady's made a career out of pushing off tackles from guys with 6 inches and 80lbs on him.
-
Handoffs and stiff arms are a matter of leverage, not a straight size fight. They're hard to do well but if you make the right contact a much smaller guy can comfortably deflect the tackle of a much larger man. Shady's made a career out of pushing off tackles from guys with 6 inches and 80lbs on him.
If we keep him, whatever...but if we trade him, i'm fine with that too. He hasn't done anything outside of "meh" yet.
-
If we keep him, whatever...but if we trade him, i'm fine with that too. He hasn't done anything outside of "meh" yet.
I think he has failed to live up to the heights we expected of him, but we've also put him in a position from which it was hard to do so. If we had anything vaguely resembling a pass rush threat from our linebackers I don't think we'd be complaining too much; it's not really fair to ask a 3-4 end to be posting big sack numbers when he's doubled on pretty much every single play.
Unless he has a case of Wilkerson attitude, I'm definitely in the camp of keeping him.
-
I think he has failed to live up to the heights we expected of him, but we've also put him in a position from which it was hard to do so. If we had anything vaguely resembling a pass rush threat from our linebackers I don't think we'd be complaining too much; it's not really fair to ask a 3-4 end to be posting big sack numbers when he's doubled on pretty much every single play.
Unless he has a case of Wilkerson attitude, I'm definitely in the camp of keeping him.
This is exactly where I stand. The problem is, he's shown some laziness this year. My question is whether that was just checking out on Bowles, or a sign of problems to come.
This is big one on Maccagnan's plate. If he's seen signs of a Wilk repeat, he has to trade him. Regardless, I want to see them give him a chance to at least attend OTAs with the new coaching staff.
-
This is exactly where I stand. The problem is, he's shown some laziness this year. My question is whether that was just checking out on Bowles, or a sign of problems to come.
This is big one on Maccagnan's plate. If he's seen signs of a Wilk repeat, he has to trade him. Regardless, I want to see them give him a chance to at least attend OTAs with the new coaching staff.
Bart Scott made a good point after the last game. He was saying when a season has gone to excrement and you're in the last couple games, you seriously start to think about spending the off season working out and healthy as opposed to being in surgery and rehab, and it can affect your play. Shouldn't be that way but it probably is.
-
Bart Scott made a good point after the last game. He was saying when a season has gone to excrement and you're in the last couple games, you seriously start to think about spending the off season working out and healthy as opposed to being in surgery and rehab, and it can affect your play. Shouldn't be that way but it probably is.
Don't want to wind up like Marcus Maye.
A lot of this is probably going to depend on the new coach hire and what he wants his defense to look like.
-
Bart Scott made a good point after the last game. He was saying when a season has gone to excrement and you're in the last couple games, you seriously start to think about spending the off season working out and healthy as opposed to being in surgery and rehab, and it can affect your play. Shouldn't be that way but it probably is.
Guys make "business decisions" with their bodies.
It's easy for me on the coach to get pissed off at a guy for being lazy but at the end of the day, if a guy gets seriously injured at the tail-end of a lost season, what did he accomplish?
Williams hasn't lived up to the hype, and he certainly didn't play to his talent at the end of this season, but again, I'm willing to give him the chance to prove himself under a new regime.
-
Williams hasn't lived up to the hype, and he certainly didn't play to his talent at the end of this season, but again, I'm willing to give him the chance to prove himself under a new regime.
Totally this, especially considering his age.
He's arguably never been put in a position to succeed/live up to his draft status.
-
I really don't think he was the right pick us regardless of his talent level. I also don't think the laziness arguments are at all founded.
He's a good player but right now it's up in the air as to wether or not he, or anyone else for that matter, will fit whatever system we will have in place under the new head coach.
I think there are three people exempt from any trade ideas right now and that's Darnold, Adams, and Enunwa and the latter is only on the list because we just signed him to an extension. This roster could look very different at the end of March.
-
This roster could look very different at the end of March.
It better.
-
It better.
This is damn right.
I expect 3-5 new starters on either side of the ball next year.
-
duff should explore trades for anyone to see if he can find a steal anywhere. he's done well in trades
but if he's not getting a major player for leo I'd be disappointed in any coach that came in and couldn't find a way to design his scheme to fit his assets
unless they don't bring back henry anderson for some insane reason, Williams/Anderson is a nice building block up front, punting on that is two steps backwards when they have so many steps they need to take
-
I would rather have a 2nd-round pick than have Leonard Williams on a big contract.
I would rather have a guy like Hakeem Butler in the 2nd round than pay Leonard Williams open market money.
-
If we move on from Leonard Williams, our pick is most likely going to be Quinnen Williams or Ed Oliver at 3 (unless we trade back).
Reminds me of the Dee Milliner selection after the Revis trade.
-
I wonder if they would bring back both Hank and Leo. Also we have this bum named Shepherd who should hopefully see some snaps next year
-
I wonder if they would bring back both Hank and Leo. Also we have this bum named Shepherd who should hopefully see some snaps next year
Henry Anderson deserves a multi-year deal.
-
they have a billion dollars in cap space
rather keep both anderson and williams. open up a hole in a trade and you're overpaying another trumaine johnson type signing somewhere on the field instead of overpaying leonard if he's only good instead of breaking out with a new coach
-
Leonard Williams isn't a bad influence or teammate, so we need to hope a better coaching staff can get more out of him.
Get him some help and see what he can do. The kid gets his derriere kicked by double teams all game long. We need another threat in the front seven to take some of the load off of him.
-
Leonard Williams isn't a bad influence or teammate, so we need to hope a better coaching staff can get more out of him.
Get him some help and see what he can do. The kid gets his derriere kicked by double teams all game long. We need another threat in the front seven to take some of the load off of him.
But...but...Josh Allen!!!
-
duff should explore trades for anyone to see if he can find a steal anywhere. he's done well in trades
but if he's not getting a major player for leo I'd be disappointed in any coach that came in and couldn't find a way to design his scheme to fit his assets
unless they don't bring back henry anderson for some insane reason, Williams/Anderson is a nice building block up front, punting on that is two steps backwards when they have so many steps they need to take
This is how I feel. You're taking a step backwards if you get rid of Williams, and worse if you don't bring back Anderson. Given that this team should be spending a lot of money and draft capital to make Sam Darnold better, it makes more sense to hang on to building blocks you already have on the defensive side of the ball.
-
If we move on from Leonard Williams, our pick is most likely going to be Quinnen Williams or Ed Oliver at 3 (unless we trade back).
Reminds me of the Dee Milliner selection after the Revis trade.
The never ending treadmill. Idzik got himself fired, hopefully Macc knows better.
-
Latest on Leonard Williams #Jets
Late Sunday night or early Monday Morning his car was found crashed in NJ, no occupant was found inside. Investigation ongoing (PANJ) as to who was driving and left scene after accident, Williams not arrested or detained as of now.
-Prison Bob
-
-Prison Bob
Jesus.
Do we even know if he’s alive?
-
Do we get a comp pick if he died?
-
Has there been any mention of this in another source?
-
I don't know what Manish's intention is on posting this now (there's always one) but I actually agree. He hasn't been that impressive, but he's young and the talent is there. With our new DC, he might improve a lot. Trading him would be a waste.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-sports-leonard-williams-jets-gregg-williams-20190205-story.html
-
I don't know what Manish's intention is on posting this now (there's always one) but I actually agree. He hasn't been that impressive, but he's young and the talent is there. With our new DC, he might improve a lot. Trading him would be a waste.
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/ny-sports-leonard-williams-jets-gregg-williams-20190205-story.html
Skimmed the article; nothing revelatory or opinion-changing for me.
I've said before, it'd be silly to trade LWilliams for anything other than a high 1st rounder. He's "disappointed" for anyone expecting him to be a one-man defense with 15 sacks a year on a defense that rarely puts him in a position to get big statistical numbers.
In a Gregg Williams 4-3 (and hopefully surrounded by improved talent...with a hopefully improved offense that doesn't hinder the D with constant 3-and-outs) we can really get a sense of Leonard's ability. He's still very young and very talented. His biggest downside so far has been "not being Aaron Donald in a half-assed 3-4".
-
Skimmed the article; nothing revelatory or opinion-changing for me.
I've said before, it'd be silly to trade LWilliams for anything other than a high 1st rounder. He's "disappointed" for anyone expecting him to be a one-man defense with 15 sacks a year on a defense that rarely puts him in a position to get big statistical numbers.
In a Gregg Williams 4-3 (and hopefully surrounded by improved talent...with a hopefully improved offense that doesn't hinder the D with constant 3-and-outs) we can really get a sense of Leonard's ability. He's still very young and very talented. His biggest downside so far has been "not being Aaron Donald in a half-assed 3-4".
It would be disappointing to trade him for less than a high first rounder. But the reality is he's on the final deal of his rookie deal. Unless we think he's going to be worth franchise tagging after this season (hopefully because he would benefit tremendously from a change in scheme), then you absolutely have to consider trading him for a mid to late first, or some kind of mixed trade (ie a 2nd and 3rd for Leonard's and a 5th or something)
And quite frankly there's almost no way whatsoever we're trading Williams for a top 15 pick because nobody is giving it to us and if he was worth that we wouldn't be having this conversation about trading him
-
I would take a 2nd-rounder for Williams. I would not take a 3rd-rounder.
-
Costello on Leonard:
https://nypost.com/2019/07/19/jets-have-an-important-leonard-williams-call-to-make/
"My gut feeling is the Jets will end up signing Williams unless his demands are outrageous. He is a good enough player that he can be a core member of this defense for years to come. Williams has also been a good citizen as a Jet and is popular with his teammates. Those are the kind of players you build around."
-
Costello on Leonard:
https://nypost.com/2019/07/19/jets-have-an-important-leonard-williams-call-to-make/
"My gut feeling is the Jets will end up signing Williams unless his demands are outrageous. He is a good enough player that he can be a core member of this defense for years to come. Williams has also been a good citizen as a Jet and is popular with his teammates. Those are the kind of players you build around."
Big Cat lifting all 235 lbs of Darron Lee by his armpits and carrying him away from a girl he was trying to impose himself upon was his finest moment to date.
-
I’m not sure what we could get for him, but Leonard Williams needs to be traded by the deadline
-
I’m not sure what we could get for him, but Leonard Williams needs to be traded by the deadline
I think it depends on the perception of him around the league and what we expect he will sign for. If we think he will command a good sized deal, I can’t see anyone trading a 3rd for him, but we could get a 3rd round comp pick by letting him walk. If we think his future deal is smaller then we may be better off moving him by the deadline to get something solid for him now and then we won’t have to worry about negating his comp pick if we sign some other HOFer priced FA
-
I'm bored of signing "OMIGOD I CAN'T BELIEVE HE FELL TO US" defensive linemen, ruining them and then trading them away for a pittance or letting them walk. Maybe let's try actually freaking coaching them properly?
-
I'm bored of signing "OMIGOD I CAN'T BELIEVE HE FELL TO US" defensive linemen, ruining them and then trading them away for a pittance or letting them walk. Maybe let's try actually freaking coaching them properly?
We could start by running a defense with actual Edge rushers. Haven’t seen one of those since Abraham
-
I'm bored of signing "OMIGOD I CAN'T BELIEVE HE FELL TO US" defensive linemen, ruining them and then trading them away for a pittance or letting them walk. Maybe let's try actually freaking coaching them properly?
I agree, but I don't see any way we resign Leo, even if he would sign for the same amount as Henry Anderson just did.
Also how freaking bad does that deal look right now? He hasn't done anything big yet either, and he's quite overpaid for his production so far.
-
I'm not saying it's all this. But having a revolving door at HC and GM is going to kill any team with successfully drafting/retaining/developing the right players. How many freaking times can you change schemes, then have guys who are suboptimal fits under contract or having guys relearning things. And while it's too early to predict Gases future, it's hard to imagine him getting a contract extension so far
-
I'm not saying it's all this. But having a revolving door at HC and GM is going to kill any team with successfully drafting/retaining/developing the right players. How many freaking times can you change schemes, then have guys who are suboptimal fits under contract or having guys relearning things. And while it's too early to predict Gases future, it's hard to imagine him getting a contract extension so far
But do you think we should extend Fitzpatrick
-
[Schefter] Sources: Multiple teams have called the Jets to inquire about the availability of DE Leonard Williams.
Pull the trigger, Doug.
-
Pull the trigger, Doug.
Replaceable.
-
If we are going to trade Leonard, it was nice to see him show up on the stat sheet a couple times yesterday. It would be a pretty good game to trade him off of.
-
I grow more convinced every day he's going to be traded.
And I think we're going to live to regret it.
-
If he was two steps faster he's already have the all time sack record.
-
I grow more convinced every day he's going to be traded.
And I think we're going to live to regret it.
Regret drafting him?
-
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Leonard put it all together either after we resign him or with a new team. He is still young so.he still should have some upside.
It would be rough for the locker room to start selling midseason but if the Jets know they arent resigning Leonard, they should trade him. Even if they still hold on to hope they can make a run against a soft schedule, beat case scenario is we get blown out in a Wild Card game. And it's far more likely we get a high draft pick.
Trading Leonard also allows us to start reallocating some of our resources to other positions besides DL. Obviously we would need to get quality draft picks but I think we need to plan for 2020 roster-wise.
I think it depends if the Jets win this week or not. If the Jets win, they will try to make a run. If they lose, I could see a firesale.
-
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Leonard put it all together either after we resign him or with a new team. He is still young so.he still should have some upside.
It would be rough for the locker room to start selling midseason but if the Jets know they arent resigning Leonard, they should trade him. Even if they still hold on to hope they can make a run against a soft schedule, beat case scenario is we get blown out in a Wild Card game. And it's far more likely we get a high draft pick.
Trading Leonard also allows us to start reallocating some of our resources to other positions besides DL. Obviously we would need to get quality draft picks but I think we need to plan for 2020 roster-wise.
I think it depends if the Jets win this week or not. If the Jets win, they will try to make a run. If they lose, I could see a firesale.
Would continue the cycle of drafting D line top 5-10, letting them walk, being terrible and getting another one in the draft.
-
We can’t afford to give away players if we draft excrement in return they fill out our shelves with overpriced free agents
-
We can’t afford to give away players if we draft excrement in return they fill out our shelves with overpriced free agents
You have to trust the FO to draft well whether they've earned it or not. That's how you win in the NFL.
-
You have to trust the FO to draft well whether they've earned it or not. That's why we haven't won in the NFL.
FYP
-
FYP
That’s why we haven’t won excrement, because we can’t draft. It’s long since been established. But if we can’t or won’t pay a guy it’s better to get something for him than nothing.
That said I think Leo has the potential to net us a comp pick that’s in the 3-4 range. If we can’t get a better offer on the market, we simply let him walk. Robby is more complicated, he is certainly not good enough to be untouchable. He is also one of the few potentially tradeable assets we have, but he’s also one of Sams only weapons. We saw what happened to Sanchez when we took away his OL and WR corps.
Sams current OL is worse than the one that destroyed Sanchez, and giving away Robby makes his receivers worse than the group that Destroyed Sanchez (although their attitudes are far better). Add in that I personally think the coaching now is worse than it was in ‘11 and The only saving grace we have is that Sams starting point is far better than Sanchez and he has a greater potential to overcome adversity.
That said his development is the only thing that matters and I’m not sure I’m giving Robby away for a pick expected in the late second right now. If the Bengals want to give us a 2nd that’s different from the Packers IMO. It would talk a lot to make me give him up.
-
I agree with you, you do have to trust your front office to draft well, we've just not been able to hire the right person to do it since Tannenbaum. That's why this roster is so bad now.
-
Is he traded yet?
-
How about now?
-
How about now?
Is he traded yet? Is he traded yet? How long until he gets traded????
-
He and Robby will be gone by Tuesday if we lose on Sunday.
-
Is he traded yet? Is he traded yet? How long until he gets traded????
So is he traded or what?
-
What do they do with old empty churches?
-
What do they do South) with old empty churches?
They sit and rot. Then deer get in and have orgies.
-
Jets are 3-1 since dealing Leonard Williams.
-
Jets are 3-1 since dealing Leonard Williams.
Giants 0-3, so for the season Leonard is 1-9.
-
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1204836912416075776?s=20
-
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1204836912416075776?s=20
I cannot stop laughing at this.
-
Brian Stevens
@BrianstevensSNY
Source: A deal for DL Leonard Williams is pretty much done. The Giants are waiting for the start of FA to sign. Waiting will make the draft picks a 3rd and 5th. If they sign Williams before FA the later pick becomes a 4th.
Yep, Vilma'd again. Saw that coming.
-
Still a great trade.
-
I hope Williams fucks them over and goes to literally any other team
I don't even care if it's New England
-
Yep, Vilma'd again. Saw that coming.
3rd and 5th is what we all thought
-
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Giants "aren't close" on an extension with free agent DL Leonard Williams.
The Giants have looked unwilling to meet Williams' asking price to this point, which is expected to be at least $15 million annually. With talks not progressing, franchising Williams remains a possibility, but there's now a chance they let him hit the open market. After giving up third and fifth-round picks for Williams, it would be a letdown if the Giants didn't get something done.
-
Lol.
-
Lol.
He wants $15 million? Why? What has he done to deserve that?
-
A 25 year old UFA with a huge boom to the cap
I don't think this is insanely unrealistic
I'd say the avg is reasonable, it's the guarantees that should be debatable
-
There's no way he gets $15million unless it is through an insane amount of incentives. Nothing in his career so far gas earned him that.
-
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Giants "aren't close" on an extension with free agent DL Leonard Williams.
The Giants have looked unwilling to meet Williams' asking price to this point, which is expected to be at least $15 million annually. With talks not progressing, franchising Williams remains a possibility, but there's now a chance they let him hit the open market. After giving up third and fifth-round picks for Williams, it would be a letdown if the Giants didn't get something done.
hahaha!
-
There's no way he gets $15million unless it is through an insane amount of incentives. Nothing in his career so far gas earned him that.
If he tests the open market he absolutely will
-
If he tests the open market he absolutely will
Indy need to add players to their DL and they have more cap space than God.
-
I'd wonder if Williams would want a shorter contract (ie 3 years) so he has a opportunity to get a true monster payday in a few years
-
Looks like Giants will tag him this morning. Which means, we get a 4th next year. Per twitter
-
Looks like Giants will tag him this morning. Which means, we get a 4th next year. Per twitter
It does not go to a fourth next year if they franchise him.
He has to sign a long term deal by Wednesday for the pick to elevate.
-
ESPN's Jeremy Fowler reports Leonard Williams will file a grievance against the Giants for franchise tagging him as a defensive tackle instead of defensive end.
It's a difference of $1.7 million, so it's not laughing matter. Williams spent the vast majority of his 2019 snaps on the interior, however, so he is extremely unlike to emerge victorious in the arbitration room. The fact that the sides are headed to a grievance hearing suggests they will be unlikely to reach a long-term accord before the July 15 deadline. Amazingly, Williams is still two months shy of his 26th birthday.
-
ESPN's Jeremy Fowler reports Leonard Williams will file a grievance against the Giants for franchise tagging him as a defensive tackle instead of defensive end.
It's a difference of $1.7 million, so it's not laughing matter. Williams spent the vast majority of his 2019 snaps on the interior, however, so he is extremely unlike to emerge victorious in the arbitration room. The fact that the sides are headed to a grievance hearing suggests they will be unlikely to reach a long-term accord before the July 15 deadline. Amazingly, Williams is still two months shy of his 26th birthday.
he sucks
-
LeoTurd Williams
-
Can’t wait to draft a future HOFer with the Leonard Williams pick.
-
Leo is outperforming Q this year, and wreaking havoc in the redskins backfield today
-
Leo is outperforming Q this year, and wreaking havoc in the redskins backfield today
No, he isn't.
-
Leo is outperforming Q this year, and wreaking havoc in the redskins backfield today
Racist
-
No, he isn't.
Quinnen isn’t better than Leonard Williams thus far. We should have drafted Josh Allen or Brian Burns.
-
Quinnen isn’t better than Leonard Williams thus far. We should have drafted Josh Allen or Brian Burns.
Would have loved Josh Allen.
-
Quinnen isn’t better than Leonard Williams thus far. We should have drafted Josh Allen or Brian Burns.
Yeah but if he was drafted by the Jets, would he be any good. Honest question because part of having a successful draft is coaching and development and the Jets suck balls on both accounts. Right now the Jets can draft JJ Watt or Julio Jones and they would probably suck.
-
Yeah but if he was drafted by the Jets, would he be any good. Honest question because part of having a successful draft is coaching and development and the Jets suck balls on both accounts. Right now the Jets can draft JJ Watt or Julio Jones and they would probably suck.
josh allen has been having success on last year's/this year's jags team. i think he would have had success even with us
i think if we drafted DK we would have fcked him up though
-
Yeah but if he was drafted by the Jets, would he be any good. Honest question because part of having a successful draft is coaching and development and the Jets suck balls on both accounts. Right now the Jets can draft JJ Watt or Julio Jones and they would probably suck.
It’s doesn’t matter if those players were only just as productive as Q, at least they would be filling a position of need. Right now we have a few iDL just as effective as Q and nothing at OLB.
Hopefully we’ve gotten the “draft BPA no matter what position” out of our systems because it’s gotten us freaking nowhere. Honestly I would be perfectly fine with never drafting an iDL in the first round the rest of my life