Unofficial ‘21-22 Yankees Offseason thread

[SixFeetDeep]

https://twitter.com/espn975/status/1466209151651037196?s=21

Well this is super sketchy. Maybe he can be had for pennies on the dollar

[MBGreen]

https://twitter.com/espn975/status/1466209151651037196?s=21

Well this is super sketchy. Maybe he can be had for pennies on the dollar

I thought Yankee fans hated Correa

[SixFeetDeep]

I get it, and I was even okay with it when they went under for the reset. On the condition that they then spend on the big-ticket items. Which they haven't done unless you count Stanton, which I don't because he wasn't a FA signing.

If Harper were a Yankee, I wouldn't have nearly the issue I have today. It's a lot like how Joe Douglas has gotten a raw deal from the fanbase, including (especially) me, because the history of the club formed a pattern that has looked familiar. The difference is, Hal and Cashman have been in charge a lot longer.

FTR, I think it's great you're a lot more patient with the Yankees. I'm an admittedly glass-half-empty personality. And I admittedly have rarely liked Cashman, so I give him a lot less leeway. I just want to win. Whether via free agents or promotions like Judge. Winning cures everything.

I’ve always said that Cashman has been hamstrung by Hal and the luxury tax. There’s sooo many instances we’ve discussed before that prevented him from putting the best team on the field.

The issue I have is that many Yankees fans act like we don’t spend any money at all and that we refuse to pay the tax. That’s patently untrue, we’re clearly at the top of the league in payroll and lux tax during our 10+ year WS drought. I have no problem spending more, again it’s not my money. I just don’t agree with the sentiment that we haven’t won because we don’t spend enough, at all. For some reason that’s easier for fans to point to than systemic failure by the FO to put together the right team with all of that money or the players not executing in the postseason.

[Derek Smalls]

Completely disagree. They're complacent because they have no reason not to be. The day Yankee Stadium was allowed to host capacity again this past summer, the game was sold out.

If fans keep coming to games, or watching YES, Hal keeps printing money. George wanted to win at all cost. Hal cares about every single cost.

Exactly. But Hal's never going to pay the luxtax again--unless fans stop coming. And that's not going to happen as long as the team keeps winning enough that games after September 15 still matter.

Don't worry, our MLB cap guru SFDcm is here to defend the Steinbrenners at all costs.

[Derek Smalls]

I’ve always said that Cashman has been hamstrung by Hal and the luxury tax. There’s sooo many instances we’ve discussed before that prevented him from putting the best team on the field.

The issue I have is that many Yankees fans act like we don’t spend any money at all and that we refuse to pay the tax. That’s patently untrue, we’re clearly at the top of the league in payroll and lux tax during our 10+ year WS drought. I have no problem spending more, again it’s not my money. I just don’t agree with the sentiment that we haven’t won because we don’t spend enough, at all. For some reason that’s easier for fans to point to than systemic failure by the FO to put together the right team with all of that money or the players not executing in the postseason.

I know we spend money, but there have been so many chances to spend money to improve this team on the margins, and they don't do it.

Rougned Odor is the perfect example. There is no reason he should be getting 361 PA, but since he was free, they played him. It wouldn't take a lot of money or prospects to upgrade that spot, but instead, they go replacement level because they can.

I'm also not perpetuating the statement that they win because they don't spend enough. Clearly, they spend enough to win, but they have not built the roster in the right way.

My problem is that the Yankees have the ability to spend their way out of some of these mistakes, and they choose not to, when they clearly have more money than anyone.

And to your last point, a lot of it has to do with just not performing in the postseason. A 1-game, 5-game or 7-game series is a tough way to prove the best overall teams when the regular season is a 162-game sample size. You need your guys to get hot at the right time, and we have not been doing that.

The funny thing is so many idiot Yankees fans like to blame Stanton, when he has been unbelievable in the playoffs for us the last two years.

[Derek Smalls]

https://twitter.com/espn975/status/1466209151651037196?s=21

Well this is super sketchy. Maybe he can be had for pennies on the dollar

Very interesting. Why would they expect a team to make a significant offer without knowing if his back is good.

[SixFeetDeep]

2010-2012 is the perfect example. Losing to Texas in the ALCS and Detroit in the ALDS and ALCS.

2010 - Yankees payroll $206M, Rangers $55M
2011 - Yankees payroll $201M, Detroit $105M
2012 - Yankees payroll $197M, Detroit $130M

Our payroll wasn’t the issue, we had a poorly constructed pitching staff (mainly due to us paying exorbitant money to old, declining players) and our hitters didn’t execute. We should have won at least 1 or 2 more WS during this time period and didn’t, and then our window was over. Resulting in the 2013-2016 Yankees. We spent more than enough money to win, the players we chose to pay didn’t get it done.

I feel similarly about this current Yankees core except for 2017. We were a young team that arrived early and the Astros were a much better team. And we came so close to a WS. No excuses for the 2018-2021 postseasons. We should have advanced in at least a couple of those postseasons and it’s not because we didn’t have a big enough payroll.

TLDR: Sure, let’s spend more money, all of it even, but it’s not why we haven’t won.

[Badger]

My problem is that the Yankees have the ability to spend their way out of some of these mistakes, and they choose not to, when they clearly have more money than anyone.

Well put.

[SixFeetDeep]

I know we spend money, but there have been so many chances to spend money to improve this team on the margins, and they don't do it.

Rougned Odor is the perfect example. There is no reason he should be getting 361 PA, but since he was free, they played him. It wouldn't take a lot of money or prospects to upgrade that spot, but instead, they go replacement level because they can.

I'm also not perpetuating the statement that they win because they don't spend enough. Clearly, they spend enough to win, but they have not built the roster in the right way.

My problem is that the Yankees have the ability to spend their way out of some of these mistakes, and they choose not to, when they clearly have more money than anyone.

And to your last point, a lot of it has to do with just not performing in the postseason. A 1-game, 5-game or 7-game series is a tough way to prove the best overall teams when the regular season is a 162-game sample size. You need your guys to get hot at the right time, and we have not been doing that.

The funny thing is so many idiot Yankees fans like to blame Stanton, when he has been unbelievable in the playoffs for us the last two years.

I was livid about Odor. It’s a good example but not really because last year was a reset year. Hence Ottavino trade, Gardner signing, no Brantley/Schwarber, Texas paying Gallos salary. Now, none of that matters and youre right if they don’t make a run and go over the tax for the next few years.

Cashman isn’t dumb. He knows this core only has 2-3 more years of all their best players in their prime. Right now is where you HAVE to go all in or you risk not winning excrement for the foreseeable future. If they don’t, well…

[Derek Smalls]

Cashman isn’t dumb. He knows this core only has 2-3 more years of all their best players in their prime. Right now is where you HAVE to go all in or you risk not winning excrement for the foreseeable future. If they don’t, well…

I think the time to strike was when the young players were cheaper. I feel that they are already in the back-end of that window, and they've let a lot of years go by without making those big moves at the deadline to make the team better. This year's deadline was the first time they showed any urgency in terms of winning now.

Really, the biggest problem with the Yankees is that most of the young core has regressed. Sanchez has been a disappointment. Gleyber was supposed to be a superstar, but he's posted sub-.725 OPS in 2 straight years, and his defense has not been good. Severino got hurt. Andujar got hurt and seemingly disappeared. Greg Bird lol. Clint Frazier :(

The only one of those top-end prospects that has really lived up to that promise is Aaron Judge, and he's a free agent in 11 months, so we will either lose him or pay him a massive contract.

[SixFeetDeep]

I think the time to strike was when the young players were cheaper. I feel that they are already in the back-end of that window, and they've let a lot of years go by without making those big moves at the deadline to make the team better. This year's deadline was the first time they showed any urgency in terms of winning now.

Really, the biggest problem with the Yankees is that most of the young core has regressed. Sanchez has been a disappointment. Gleyber was supposed to be a superstar, but he's posted sub-.725 OPS in 2 straight years, and his defense has not been good. Severino got hurt. Andujar got hurt and seemingly disappeared. Greg Bird lol. Clint Frazier :(

The only one of those top-end prospects that has really lived up to that promise is Aaron Judge, and he's a free agent in 11 months, so we will either lose him or pay him a massive contract.

They were on a trajectory to win a WS since 2017 and they’ve whiffed every postseason. No one plans for regression in their young stars. Tough for me to blame anyone other than those individual players. It’s not like it would have been smart to dump Gary or Gleyber at the first signs of regression considering the success they have had in previous seasons. As you said, that’s been their biggest problem.

Machado/Harper is really the only spot I can point to and say they didn’t use their financial muscle. I also don’t see many teams handing out 10 year $300M deals every offseason though. Even if you do have the most money those contracts are a huge risk and don’t usually work out at the end of the deal. And as you said, they have Judge to think about.

[SixFeetDeep]

2018: Stanton - 10 years $220M (after Marlins ate salary)
2019: Harper/Machado - 13 years $330M / 10 years $300M
2020: Cole - 9 years $324M
2021: Correa - 10 years $325+M
2022: Judge - lotta money

Yeahhhh I just don’t see any way that would have happened, and if you keep doing that it’s a recipe for disaster a few years down the road.

[mj2sexay]

I don't lay fault on Cashman for not making a splash signing every winter, but there's value in the free agent market that lately he's been able to uncover, DJ aside.

Hicks was a massive mistake that was entirely preventable.

I agree with SFD that this team should be able to win maintaining their payroll when you consider what Tampa, Oakland and other organizations are able to do, but at the same time, it's the fuckin Yankees. They aren't any other organization. Part of being the gold standard is spending like it, even if it's in an effort to mitigate prior mistakes.

[AlioTheFool]

2018: Stanton - 10 years $220M (after Marlins ate salary)
2019: Harper/Machado - 13 years $330M / 10 years $300M
2020: Cole - 9 years $324M
2021: Correa - 10 years $325+M
2022: Judge - lotta money

Overall, I don't think anyone here disagrees with the last few posts you've made. Maybe we're not the ground-level average Yankees fans, but no one here thinks the Yankees don't spend money.

They just spend poorly and then don't throw more money at a problem when it becomes blatant.

Yeahhhh I just don’t see any way that would have happened, and if you keep doing that it’s a recipe for disaster a few years down the road.

This is exactly where I diverge. Why is it a recipe for disaster? Only because we know Hal isn't going to keep going way over the threshold. Because he doesn't want to pay the top-tier tax. Because he prioritizes profit over performance.

If Cashman and his scouts had proven they can cultivate a Rays-esque farm system, okay, Hal might be right that they don't need to overspend. But this system has been full of poor evaluations. We've seen it in players Cash has traded who flame out quickly, we see it in the El Garys, and we even see it in the young guys he's acquired via trade like Frazier and Gleyber (though Clint was injury and Torres was better after going back to 2B).

[SixFeetDeep]

Overall, I don't think anyone here disagrees with the last few posts you've made. Maybe we're not the ground-level average Yankees fans, but no one here thinks the Yankees don't spend money.

They just spend poorly and then don't throw more money at a problem when it becomes blatant.

This is exactly where I diverge. Why is it a recipe for disaster? Only because we know Hal isn't going to keep going way over the threshold. Because he doesn't want to pay the top-tier tax. Because he prioritizes profit over performance.

If Cashman and his scouts had proven they can cultivate a Rays-esque farm system, okay, Hal might be right that they don't need to overspend. But this system has been full of poor evaluations. We've seen it in players Cash has traded who flame out quickly, we see it in the El Garys, and we even see it in the young guys he's acquired via trade like Frazier and Gleyber (though Clint was injury and Torres was better after going back to 2B).

10 year deals for guys approaching 30 usually freak you on the back end. No matter how much you spend you’re locked into putting those guys out on the field. The back end of the Arod and Teixeira contracts were uggggly. We were lucky CC learned how to pitch without velocity